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Take your Money out of the Bank NOW! (includes video)

June 6, 2012

The Credit Crunch is not some natural phenomenon but an all out assault by the Money Power. What is worse: even without the crunch we are paying trillions per year in interest for absolutely nothing.
The solution is simple: quit their banks.

By Anthony Migchels for Henry Makow and Real Currencies

The Money Power’s goals are obvious. It is not just the massive multi trillion wealth transfer that is under way. It is about bringing the West down a few notches. The US seems strong with a nominal $30.000 per capita GDP, but when the dollar devalues against the Brazilian Real and the Chinese Yuan things will quickly look different. It will also end cheap raw materials.

The reason this crisis exists is because the banks, politicians, the media and economists are colluding in fooling the many into believing we need banks for our money supply. Most of them probably even believe this is true themselves.

They say we need the banks, because otherwise the real economy would have no money to trade with.

All this is complete and utter rubbish, of course. If banks can create credit, then anybody can. That’s just common sense.

Just imagine: we are led to believe that we need to cough up trillions just to have a means of exchange. One that is completely paper/computer based. I.e., almost free of cost.

Banking is part of the Babylon Mystery and bankers believe we are still enthralled with their ‘fractional reserve banking’ sleight of hand. And they are right. Although people are waking up, they still don’t get it.

A good example of this is the ‘take your money out of Bank of America’ of last October. Bank of America decides to rake in an extra 60 dollars per year with a silly fee. This upsets people.

While they are paying $300k interest over 30 years on their $200k mortgage. Which the bank created the moment they borrowed it.

Meanwhile, 45% of our disposable income is lost to cost for capital included in the prices we pay for our daily needs.

In other words: Penny wise, pound foolish.
People still don’t understand how badly they are being raped. They still don’t understand how they are fleeced through interest on fictional debt.

Coming to terms
Of course, it was a great step and absolutely fantastic to see people finally showing a little teeth. But it shows how hesitantly people are coming to grips with the reality of banking.

Boycotting the banks is the blindingly obvious approach. If somebody is enslaving you with interest and fractional reserve banking while destroying the economy by not lending why would you patronize his business?

To say this is irresponsible as it will worsen the crunch is ridiculous: propping up a system that only exists to enslave us is irresponsible, not disconnecting from it.

But only few even within the Free Media are willing to accept this simple conclusion.

The fact of the matter is: many are still enthralled with the ‘magnificent edifice of international finance’, as Rothschild mouthpiece the Economist once called it.

It is unfortunate that there is still widespread misunderstanding about both money and our real problem with it.

People do not yet understand how pervasive the enslavement through interest really is.

That’s why they fall for the notion that Gold will solve our problems. But what does it matter whether we pay all this interest for Gold or for paper based credit? The Money Power owns both and all the interest will end up in the same place.

The mind control of the rich, the social conditioning to accept the current order and its despicable ‘morality’, to defend it at the cost of oneself and one’s loved ones is very profound and pervasive in our beliefs. They are not easily uprooted, not even by the ‘Internet Reformation’.

In the mean time we are ignoring the real solution: interest free money. Either debt free, in the form of Social Credit, which would work out like a ‘Citizens Dividend‘.
Or interest free credit, through Mutual Credit.

These solutions are real and we can implement them today.

We would no longer pay interest on a mortgage, which would also mean much lower rent.

While paying 45% less for what we need, because there would be no longer any cost for capital included in prices.  World Government would be dead and Big Business would face the competition of well funded small business.

The reason we are not doing this is not only because Washington and Brussels are owned by the Money Power in the City of London.

The main reason is we don’t see the problem and therefore we miss out on the solution.

Fight Back!
We don’t need to wait for reform on a national level. We can create our own currencies. High powered currencies, not just the simple barter units that are now starting to float everywhere in the world. We can create extremely effective, interest free credit based units, convertible to dollar or euro. In effect providing us with a printing press with which we can back the world interest free.

But these will take time to build up. Meanwhile, isn’t it the obvious thing to pull our money out of the banks?

How is it possible that this is being resisted by many well meaning people in the Alternative Media? Is there really anybody out there who still believes the banks will mend their ways? That they somehow will stop being the psychopathic enslavers that they are?

We should not have one dime in that system. Every dollar we put in the banking system gives them a dollar income per year. Remember that. The system, through fractional reserve banking, multiplies your dollar by ten and takes interest over each of them. Real interest (including credit cards) are probably close to 10% and that means they make a dollar per year over every dollar you have in your account.

Remember that 40 years ago nobody had a bank account. Before then there were no computers and the banks couldn’t have handled the administration.
You don’t need a bank to keep your money. The whole idea is insane! Nowhere is your money more prone to abuse and risk than in a bank.

And you can maintain an account for monthly payments, just keep its balance at almost zero. Pay your bills and take out the rest.

Force the FED and ECB to print ever more for bailouts.

Pay cash only. Don’t support their cashless society. Liquidate all your paper assets, both to blow up the system and to minimize your own exposure to the implosion. Let them squirm and lie ever more transparently with every new bailout that they need to force upon us. Let them show their hand. We’re not going to ‘repay’ odious debt.

We’re not afraid. We don’t need them.

Let them eat cake.

Related:
The Swiss WIR, or: How to Defeat the Money Pow
Mutual Credit, the Astonishingly Simple Truth about Money Creation
Understand that the Banking System is One
On Interest

Budget of an Interest Slave

This is an abridged version of Financial Warfare 2012: Boycott All Banks

67 Comments
    • Hey Ron: Any chance of an English transcript? LOL

      • ron permalink

        no i cant ,im spanish but i thougth is was interesting the ideas of Feder you can read his books in english even somebody could translete it i found it yesterday in the tube

  1. Anthony, that was a good video for beginners – relatively easy for them to understand.

  2. This is meant as an answer to Ron and Charles below.

    Dick Eastman just yesterday forwarded Feder’s legendary program against Interest slavery.

    It still stands today. Occupy Wall Street would have a great 0.9 version for their own program through it. Here it si:

    Only by abolishing interest slavery can Germany achieve reconciliation in a nation torn by class conflict.
    It can be achieved only by putting an end to the unearned income that is derived from the possession of money.
    Our greatest social task is the abolition of interest slavery.
    This responsibility to abolish interest slavery towers above all other issues of the day.
    It is the only solution to the greatest problem of our time.

    Gottfried Feder

    Presented in Public Debate in Wagner Hall, Munich,
    11 April 1921

    The German Federation for the Abolition of Interest Slavery, hereinafter called “The Federation,” demands the following:

    1) We demand the nationwide discontinuation of interest payments, which is nothing more than robbery of the nation on behalf of global finance.

    2) Specifically we demand revocation of the privilege given a certain private corporation, namely the Reichsbank, to print money anywhere in the country.
    This revocation should be accomplished through the nationalization of the Reichsbank.

    (3) We demand nationalization of all those banks that no longer perform their valid socioeconomic task of facilitating the circulation, movement and transfer of money.
    Those banks have ruthlessly taken command of our economic life. They are extorting tribute from the productive sector of our economy in the form of ever-increasing interest.

    4) We demand adequate compensation for the devaluation of savings on behalf of small pensioners.The devaluation that resulted from the government’s finance and tax policies has ruined everyone.

    5) We demand specifically that the economic independence and future of Bavaria not be jeopardized by the assignment of our priceless natural resource, waterpower, to private finance capital.

    6) We demand that the State undertake the development of water resources by utilizing our own labor resources.The State should create the necessary monetary instruments through its own financial authority.These instruments will be covered by income from the power plants that are built.

    7) We demand that the State use its national assets and taxing power for productive undertakings, not to provide necessary collateral for borrowing money.

    8) We demand restrictions on the raising of capital by corporations.Joint stock corporations should use their profits to increase their productive capacity and nothing else.They should not be allowed to pay unprecedented dividends while at the same time assuming unprecedented debt.These massive amounts of new (borrowed) money represent more debt, demanding additional interest that can only lead to increased inflation

    10) The Federation rejects the imputation that its demands are “utopian” and “designed to spread unrest among the people.”

    The recovery of our national economy can be achieved only by discontinuing national debt service, is vitally important for everyone.
    Therefore, it is not “utopian.”

    Whatever public unrest exists is created by the opponents of economic recovery and by no one else.

    It is true that individual selfish interests will harmed here and there, but discontinuation of interest payments is a necessary act that can no more be avoided than can a life-saving operation be avoided on account of the associated discomfort.

    The Federation insists that the national economic crisis demands a solution!

    The havoc wreaked by our financial policies is affecting the entire nation!

    These failed policies aggravate all our social problems.

    At present, our government cannot satisy the private need for credit.

    An effective program would entail a complete abolition of interest, for which there is historical precedent.

    At present, interest rates are left to the unrestricted demand of the lenders.

    A solution to the present crisis can be found only by requiring the lender to share risk as well as profit.The lender should not receive a blanket guarantee on investment plus other ever-increasing charges plus the constant unearned growth of wealth through fixed interest.

    The Federation proposes the liberation of all Western nations from their stupendous indebtedness.The abolition of interest slavery is the necessary prerequisite for the solution of ever country’s crisis, not just Germany’s crisis.We have proposed a plan to end the titanic struggle now raging between Labor and Capital in favor of the freedom to work and produce.Our plan shows how to accomplish this without undermining the acquisition of wealth through individual effort, industriousness and intellectual achievement.

    Only by abolishing interest slavery can Germany achieve reconciliation in a nation torn by class conflict.
    It can be achieved only by putting an end to the unearned income that is derived from the possession of money.
    Our greatest social task is the abolition of interest slavery.
    This responsibility to abolish interest slavery towers above all other issues of the day.
    It is the only solution to the greatest problem of our time.

    The abolition of interest slavery will deliver us from global Capitalist domination.
    It will accomplish this while avoiding both Communist destruction of the human spirit and Capitalist degradation of labor.
    The abolition of interest slavery opens the way to a truly social economy, by liberating us from the overwhelming domination of money.
    It opens the way to a state based on creative work and
    genuine accomplishment

    “Our greatest social task is the abolition of interest slavery. This responsibility to abolish interest slavery towers above all other issues of the day. It is the only solution to the greatest problem of our time.”

    We demand that the State shall make it its first duty to promote the industry and livelihood of the citizens of the State. If it is not possible to nourish the entire population of the State, foreign national (non-citizens of the State) must be excluded from the Reich.

    We Demand Therefore: Abolition of incomes unearned by work. BREAKING OF THE THRALDOM OF INTEREST.

    In view of the enormous sacrifice of life and property demanded of a nation by every war, personal enrichment through war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. We demand,therefore, the total confiscation of all war profits.

    We demand a land reform suitable to our national requirements,the passing of a law for the confiscation without compensation of land for communal purposes, the abolition of interest on land mortgages, and prohibition of all speculation in land. [On April 13, 1928, Adolf Hitler made the following elucidation to the program: … Since the NSDAP is fundamentally based on the principle of private property, it is obvious that the expression “confiscation without compensation” refers merely to the creation of possible legal means of confiscating when necessary, land illegally acquired, or not administered in accordance with the national welfare. It is therefore directed in the first instance against the Jewish companies which speculate in land.

    We demand ruthless war upon all those whose activities are injurious to the common interest. Sordid criminals against thenation, usurers, profiteers, etc., must be punished with death, whatever their creed or race.

    We demand that the Roman law, which serves the materialistic world order, shall be replaced by a common law.

    The State must apply itself to raising the standard of health in the nation by protecting mothers and infants, prohibiting child labor, and increasing bodily efficiency by legally obligatory gymnastics and sports, and by extensive support of clubs engaged in the physical training of the young.

    21. We demand the abolition of mercenary troops and the formation of a national army.

    23. We demand legal warfare against conscious political lies and their dissemination in the press. In order to facilitate the
    creation of a German national press we demand that: (a) all editors, and their co-workers, of newspapers employing the German
    language must be members of the nation; (b) special permission from the State shall be necessary before non-German newspapers may appear (these need not necessarily be printed in the German language); ( c ) non-Germans shall be prohibited by law from
    participating financially in or influencing German newspapers, and the penalty for contravention of the shall be suppression of any
    such newspaper, and immediate deportation of the non-German involved It must be forbidden to publish newspapers which are
    damaging to the national welfare. We demand the legal prosecution of all tendencies in art and literature which exert a destructive
    influence on our national life and the closing of institutions which militate against the above-mentioned requirements.

    24. We demand liberty for all religious denominations in the State, so far as they are not a danger to it and do not militate against the moral and ethical feelings of the German race. The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself in the matter of creed to any particular confession. It combats the Jewish-materialist spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent recovery from within only on the principle: THE COMMON INTEREST BEFORE SELF-INTEREST

    25. That all the foregoing requirements may be realized we demand the creation of a strong, central national authority; unconditional authority of the central legislative body over the entire Reich and its organizations in general; and the formation of diets and vocational chambers for the purpose of executing the general laws promulgated by the Reich in the various States of the Confederation. The leaders of the Party swear to proceed regardless of consequences – if necessary at the sacrifice of their lives – toward the fulfillment of the foregoing Points.

    Munich, February 24, 1920.

    After full discussion at the general meeting of members on May 22, 1920, it was resolved that “This program is unalterable.” This does not imply that every word must stand unchanged, nor that any efforts to extend or develop the program are to be prohibited, but it does imply that the principles and basic ideas contained in it are not to be tampered with.

    There can be no twisting and turning for reasons of expediency, no secret meddling with the most important – and for the present order of politics, society, and economics, most unwelcome – points in the program; no deviation from its original sense.

    Adolf Hitler has emphasized the two cornerstones of the program by mprinting them in heavy type:

    THE COMMON INTEREST BEFORE SELF-INTEREST – THAT IS THE SPIRIT OF
    THE PROGRAM. BREAKING OF THE THRALDOM OF INTEREST – THAT IS THE
    KERNEL OF NATIONAL SOCIALISM.

    _____________________________________________________________________

    The following translation of Gottfried Feder’s explanation of interest
    slavery is from Louis L. Snyder, Encyclopedia of the Third Reich (New
    York: Marlowe & Co., 1976) p. 387. Professor Snyder obtained this
    quotation from, Gottfried Feder, Hitler’s Official Program and It’s
    Fundamental Ideas, (London: George Allen & Unwin Ltd., 1934)

    “Breaking interest slavery is our cry on the field of battle. I know
    this principle has not been rightly understood in its unheard of and
    fundamental importance, even in our own ranks. One sees, for example, how
    seldom our speakers dare to come to this root problem. Indeed most of them
    feel it to be a fundamental question; in the treasury of words of our
    comrades is the motto: “Fight against exchange and loan capitalism.’ But
    just what ‘breaking of interest slavery’ means and how it works in practical
    life of the individual and the nation, what technically financial occurences
    make the nation ‘slaves of interest,’ or what practical steps are necessary
    to carry out the breaking of interest-slavery, and what the results will be
    for the entire population when this interest slavery is broken — these are
    all vague.

    “What does one understand by ‘interest slavery’? The condition of people
    who live under the money rule or the interst rule of the almighty …high
    finance.

    “In interest-slavery is the farmer, who, in order to finance his farm,
    must take ‘credit,’ at so high a rate of interest, that the interest almost
    eats up the profits of his work, or who has made or must make debts and must
    drag the mortgage debts with him as an eternal ball of lead.

    “In interest-slavery is the workingman, who labors in the factories and
    workshops for insufficient wages, while the stockholder collects interest
    and dividends — without worry or work.

    “In interest slavery is the entire bourgeoisie, which to-day must work
    practically speaking to pay for the interest on bank loans.

    In interest slavery are all who must earn their bread through bodily or
    mental work, while standing opposite to them a class — without care and
    without work — obtains huge incomes through financial transactions. –We
    do not speak of small independent men or the men with savings-accounts, even
    though they collect small profits through a fundamentally unsound system but
    throughout their lives a hundred times the amount of their small savings are
    taken away from them in some manner through taxes, pensions, etc., so that
    in old age they may be given a part of what has been taken away from them
    before.

    “In interest-slavery is the industrialist, who has built up his business
    through the hardest of work, then, according to the principle of keeping up
    with the times, has changed his business into a corporation; he is now no
    longer his own boss, but he must satisfy the insatiable greed for profits of
    the ‘members of the boeard and the stockholders’–if he doesn’t want to be
    fired from his own business.

    “In interest-slavery is every nation that covers its needs for money
    through ‘loans.’

    In interest-slavery every nation is destroyed, every nation that gives
    its most important domestic sovereign rights to the money-power — the
    bankers, its financial interests, its railroads, and the control of the most
    important taxes and tariffs, as Germany has done through acceptance of the
    Dawes plan.

    “In interest-slavery are all nations and all governments that bend before
    the power of loan-capital.

    “In interest-slavery is all creative work, that has lost its place to
    gold, so that to-day money has become the most brutal tyrant over work.

    “Interest-slavery is the correct term for the contrasts ‘capital vs.
    work,’ ‘blood vs. money,’ ‘power of creation vs. profiteering.’

    “The demand for breaking of interest-slavery is of such gigantic
    proportions, of such fundamental importance for our nation…that the
    rebirth of our nation out of the depths of slavery and shame is dependent
    upon the solution of the problem, indeed the happiness, prosperity and
    civilization of the world is dependent upon it.

    “Breaking of interest-slavery is the steel axle about which everything
    turns. It is much more than a financial, political demand;…It goes into
    the personal life of everyone. It demands the decision from everyone:
    serving for the people or limitless private wealth. It means the solution
    of the social question.”

    =============

    20. With the aim of opening to every capable and industrious
    German the possibility of higher education and consequent
    advancement to leading positions, the State must consider a
    thorough reconstruction of our national system of education. The
    curriculum of all educational establishments must be brought into
    line with the requirements of practical life. Directly the mind
    begins to develop the schools must aim at teaching the pupil to
    understand the idea of the State (State sociology). We demand the
    education of specially gifted children of poor parents, whatever
    their class or occupation, at the expense of the State.

    21. The State must apply itself to raising the standard of health
    in the nation by protecting mothers and infants, prohibiting child
    labor, and increasing bodily efficiency by legally obligatory
    gymnastics and sports, and by extensive support of clubs engaged
    in the physical training of the young.

    22. We demand the abolition of mercenary troops and the formation
    of a national army.

    23. We demand legal warfare against conscious political lies and
    their dissemination in the press. In order to facilitate the
    creation of a German national press we demand that: (a) all
    editors, and their co-workers, of newspapers employing the German
    language must be members of the nation; (b) special permission
    from the State shall be necessary before non-German newspapers may
    appear (these need not necessarily be printed in the German
    language); ( c ) non-Germans shall be prohibited by law from
    participating financially in or influencing German newspapers, and
    the penalty for contravention of the shall be suppression of any
    such newspaper, and immediate deportation of the non-German
    involved It must be forbidden to publish newspapers which are
    damaging to the national welfare. We demand the legal prosecution
    of all tendencies in art and literature which exert a destructive
    influence on our national life and the closing of institutions
    which militate against the above-mentioned requirements.

    24. We demand liberty for all religious denominations in the
    State, so far as they are not a danger to it and do not militate
    against the moral and ethical feelings of the German race. The
    Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not
    bind itself in the matter of creed to any particular confession.
    It combats the Jewish-materialist spirit within and without us,
    and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent recovery
    from within only on the principle: THE COMMON INTEREST BEFORE
    SELF-INTEREST

    • ron permalink

      thanks Anthony the videos of dickestman are really great as your blog like i said months back is the best in monetary issues and the real economy.I agree about the gatekeppers out there and if i see those gatekeppers and i read ,you say and more people the same is a good sign we are no confused about who is who.About Webster is a guy ive followed and in terms of economcs and geopolitics is interesting what he says.I read Surviving the cataclysm and is really good and interesting.Ive seen your videos ocuppy nmigen but i dont understand ducht but thanks for the great great job you do

  3. Plato permalink

    Hi Anthony, first of all I like to thank you for your good insights initiative, and this website with good information.
    But with this article i don’t fully agree. I think you first need to have a good alternative for the current money system before you going deconstruct it.

    • Well, the alternatives are well known and available: Social Credit and Interest free credit.

      the idea of a bank boycott is to put pressure on the PtB.

      Also: even the current mess could easily be solved overnight even within the current paradigms
      Check this article.

      The only reason this mess is here is because our bosses want it so and we don’t see how easy it could all be fixed.

      • Plato permalink

        Oke put pressure is good thing I think.
        But from all the alternatives (all these digital concepts) on your site it’s going to be interest free social credit (from Dick Eastman).
        I read several things from Dick Eastman, good guy, If I am understanding you right you would like to implement his idea of social credit?
        It’s a great idea but are you sure it’s going to work? Has it already been tested somewhere? Who is going to issue the social credit? A central bank? Then you/we have to start a political party…

        • Yes, social credit would typically be created by govt.

          It must be complemented with Interest free credit though, because the wealth transfer to the ultra rich that is interest must end.

          I believe this interest free credit should be provided by independent market players.

    • @ Plato We don’t need an alternative because the money infrastructure is already in place. To suggest we need an alternative as in our road system would mean digging up all our roads and replacing them with something else when we all have cars.

      We need to teach those around us that it’s our signatures on Promissory Notes (Bills of Exchange) that create money as in mortgages, loans and lines of credit for credit cards. It’s our money and the banksters then steal it via fraudulent off-ledger book-keeping. All we should be doing is going into retail stores and signing for our acquisitions. In the reorganisational national bankruptcy everything is prepaid.

      • Plato permalink

        ”All we should be doing is going into retail stores and signing for our acquisitions. In the reorganisational national bankruptcy everything is prepaid.”
        Sorry I don’t fully understand that such a simple thing you describe above solves the interest problem.

        • There is only an interest problem because people think they are actually borrowing money when in reality they are the ones creating the money via their signatures on Promissory Notes e.g. mortgage application forms. After the gold and silver was removed from circulation in 1931 (UK) 1933 (USA) the people became the surety for the national bankruptcy via their sweat equity i.e. we create the money, banks do not.

          The banks steal our money and then con us into thinking we’re borrowing it and then have the gall to charge us interest on our own money. This is a ponzi scam to end all ponzi scams.

  4. herzmeister permalink

    I believe we also have to blame ourselves. We were just stupid and naive in history. As we all know, when we deposited gold in banks, they gave out receipts, which we treated as equal money.

    The banks clearly committed fraud by this fractional reserve lending, but people realized it fueled the economy. Because what is money after all? Money is information. That’s all it is. Not gold or silver. These are only means to the purpose of money, which is to transmit information of who owes what to whom.

    When people realized the nature of the fractional lending system, the original “money out of thin air” thing, there were bank runs. To solve the problem of bank runs, the power elites proposed a solution: The central banking system to regulate the banks and to keep a “federal reserve”. Clearly, a fatality. Problem, reaction, solution.

    We also don’t need authoritarian (national-) socialist solutions to the fractional lending/interest problem. That’s also centralization. Centralization is what attracts psychopaths to the key positions of power, and this is the real problem that makes society corrupt. This is the true essence of the lesson we should learn from history.

    Anybody can lend money, that’s true. So what we need as fully responsible, awake and educated individuals is to demand is transparency from lenders (and banks). A bank should be a business like any other. A bank should basically provide two services:

    1. Storing commodities like gold securely. They can charge fees for that service from us because they carry the risk.

    2. We give them them commodities like gold and allow them to lend it to businesses. For that, they charge a fees from these businesses, because there is the risk of the business failing of course. We in return get a share of bank. This was the original idea of interest. We *must not* treat these shares as a primary currency any more! Note there will also be different (competing) banks and different shares with different market value and with different dividends. No more Jon Doe’s savings account. Both the bank and the lender (me) carry the full risk. And we must be aware that failures *will* and *must* happen.

    If we don’t like either solution, we can still set up our own barter networks, time trading networks, ripple systems, mutual credit systems, etc…

    See, plenty of options in a free world. The power elites justify their actions on our stupidity and naivety and unwillingness to educate ourselves and take initiative. Let’s remember it’s all in our hands. Yes, we *can* and *should* take our moneys out of *their* banks, and almost more importantly, stop consuming from the big corporations.

    • See, plenty of options in a free world. The power elites justify their actions on our stupidity and naivety and unwillingness to educate ourselves and take initiative. Let’s remember it’s all in our hands. Yes, we *can* and *should* take our moneys out of *their* banks, and almost more importantly, stop consuming from the big corporations.

      I couldn’t agree more, that’s what it’s all about!

      • Plato permalink

        Yes okay plenty of options theoretically. You know in Argentina, they also had a crisis and they barter second hand shoes against two bags of patatoes, well this primitive kind of bartersystem you really don’t want to have 🙂

        • Plato permalink

          We give them them commodities like gold and allow them to lend it to businesses. For that, they charge a fees from these businesses, because there is the risk of the business failing of course. We in return get a share of bank. This was the original idea of interest. We *must not* treat these shares as a primary currency any more! Note there will also be different (competing) banks and different shares with different market value and with different dividends. No more Jon Doe’s savings account. Both the bank and the lender (me) carry the full risk. And we must be aware that failures *will* and *must* happen.

          Interesting, yes banks should be a marketplace between lenders and borrowers, nothing less nothing more. Maybe we have to start an interest free marketplace right now! May be on the internet moneymarketplace.com or something..

          • Well, there is no risk, really, because there is collateral. And we don’t need deposits from savers, since we can create all the credit we need with mutual credit. See the article on Mutual Credit on the Interest Free Economics page.

          • Plato permalink

            So you want an interest free social credit system which will be issued by a central bank provided by independent market players via a Mutual Credit system…

          • lol, no, haha. It’s a hybrid approach: let Govt provide Social Credit and the market Mutual Credit.

          • Plato permalink

            Hmm okay great ideas but I miss the focus I think we have to start testing all these ”plenty of options” because there is a big difference between ideas and realities.

          • testing is good. Get going, we need you out there implementing this stuff!

          • herzmeister permalink

            There are already plenty of regional systems active as Anthony points out. The Bitcoin community is very lively too. I believe we all have to communicate with each other better. Each approach has certain advantages and drawbacks, and we all have to educate each other and work together. Because I still believe a multi-faceted approach is the solution, as the conundrum about money is that it must be scarce and abundant at the same time.

          • You know what: bitcoin’s peer to peer achitecture is totally brilliant.

            I’d love to see a bitcoin derivative based on mutual credit. It should be possible. Every new participant should be allowed in on the invitation of, say, four others. These four vouch for the credibility of the new participant and are liable if he fails.

            The amount of credit someone gets is based on his past behavior. The more trade, the more credit.

            In this way a completely anonymous interest free credit facility would come available, purely peer to peer, which is what I like best about bitcoin. No central issuing ‘authority’, deciding who will get credit or not.

            Let nakamoto or his followers build that. It will destroy the money power in no time. And I’m not kidding.

          • herzmeister permalink

            There’s a Bitcoin fork called Freicoin which is with demurrage:

            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3816.0

            What you describe sounds much like Ripple, I don’t know how much you’ve looked into it:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_monetary_system
            Some example sites implementing it are https://villages.cc/ (basic) and https://ripplepay.com/ (advanced, with convertibility options).

            Still I see Bitcoin more as a debt-free, scarce, potentially anonymous digital reserve currency. Ripple is abundant peer-to-peer credit, therefore reputation-based and thus like similar approaches can almost by definition not really be anonymous (and I believe it doesn’t have to be, you’re known in the shop you get your daily groceries).

          • fascinating! thanks much!

          • herzmeister permalink

            You’re essentially voting for bailouts, Anthony.

            TANSTAAFL.

            Who owns the “collateral”? Who’s in control?

          • Huh? You kidding? How? Let me know, I’ll mend my ways asap………

          • herzmeister permalink

            You write in the “Mutual Credits” article:

            > 4. Debts that are not repaid lead to unbacked units in circulation. The cost for taking these out of circulation can be covered by taking a small one off fee when the credit is assigned. Defaults typically amount to 2% of total outstanding credit.

            This is essentially the same that we tax payers do today when we bail out the banks (but I trust it won’t be as devastating as today), i.e. socializing risks and losses.

            > 5. Serious sums of credit are backed by collateral.

            If you mean I’m being evicted out of my house when I am at -1000 hours in the LETS, then that’s the reasonable solution. If you mean some kind of “community collateral”, then it’s bailouts.

          • Excuse me Herzmeister, I missed this reply.

            Yes, small losses are socialized, just as the benefits of the monetary system itself are: there is no profit making institution raping everybody, but it’s natural that all the real costs are carried by the users of the money.

            “If you mean I’m being evicted out of my house when I am at -1000 hours in the LETS, then that’s the reasonable solution. If you mean some kind of “community collateral”, then it’s bailouts.”
            This is the way it should (and will) work, we agree.

            (hit reply to read squashed text)

  5. Bill X permalink

    Telling people to take money out of the banks is really stupid. Bank of America started charging fees from accounts because Congress passed a law limiting what banks can make processing debit card purchases. They used to make money every time you used your debit card but now it costs them money. The fact that some people have mortgages there is irrelevant. Banks are an unusual type of business because their worst customers cost them money. They lose money on many of their checking accounts but they keep the accounts in hope that they’ll borrow money from the bank.

    • Yes, really unusual businesses. Real difficulty making money.
      If you think like this about the banks, I wonder how you feel about the poor and needy of the world!

    • @ BillX In the box nonsense – you must work for a bank. No customer costs a bank money, every cheque they write is hypothocated on nine times at least by the bank – every time we use a credit card they do the same. Why do you think they send you a new credit card every three years? Banks only lose money when CEO’s are charged with the job of destroying their own banks in order to create a phony crisis and then obtain government bail-outs with the sole aim of impoverishing tax payers.

  6. So, how many internet money reformists can say they have no credit card, no debit card, no bank account ? The cheerleaders –Makov, Rense, Still, Griffin, Brown, Jones, Mars– certainly can’t.

  7. If they take their money out of the bank, how can they send you VISA and MasterCard donation to fund your Gerle ? (what does “gerle” mean)

    Where do you park your money ? in silver? in real-estate? in stock/bonds?

    • well, most people visiting this site are part of the 50% of americans that own zero net assets or less, I guess. There is only one guy that ever donated anything. Thankfully he was quite generous.

      Gelre is the ancient name of the province of which Arnhem (from a bridge too far fame) is the capital. It was the last provice to resist unification under the house of Habsburg in the 16th century. Shortly after Gelre was subdued, the 80 year war of independence started, that ended in the 1648 Westphalia peace, leaving tne Republic as the most powerful entity on the continent. Of course, vampire UK had already laid the foundation for its ascent over the back of the dutch by then.

      My money? Are you kidding me? All those tens of thousands I owe you mean?

      I have no money.

      Those that do, I advise them to get a little metal, maybe 20% of their assets and spend the rest. Pay off the mortgage, invest in business ventures or education. Hell, even paying your taxes in advance is better than ‘saving’ money in a bank account.

      What do you with yours?

      • >>>>get a little metal
        Like Larry deLeech who talks big on paper but puts his money into coin ?!

        ==========
        Well, I am about the only one on these forums, and in this line of business who can say “have no account, no credit card”. You don’t know this, i have been a drifter for a decade, and a vagrant for an other (hence the too much time for books and library)
        my house in tent city, 10 years ago
        http://name789.wordpress.com/tent-city/

        These days there is some left over: “matress money” in the form of Bank of Canada notes

        • matrass is good. forgot to mention that solid place for cash.

          I have an account, but it’s always empty, even if I have some money.

          I read the story. But did not realize the obvious.

          You’re not american either, are you? would you mind telling where you are from?

          How did you get into this business?

          • http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/oldsite/article.asp?ID=1235
            Re-educate yourself
            ===========
            >>>get into this business
            I already told you how (in another post), I was born this way.

            I came to Canada, was shocked, and realized it was a marxist country. It was downhill from there. Like a blind man in the dark, looked for explanation in conspiracy books by the bushel (hence my very low opinion of conspiracy booksellers)

            No, I am not now, nor have I ever been a citizen or resident of the United States of America. but I did visit the library of congress

      • Reventlow, Vampire of the Continent


        (perhaps, you could delete the first one of the duplicate replies)

        • oops, you’re right, done.

          That’s a cool book: I read a large chunk of it on your site. Gave me a whole new perspective on how bad it really was, this ‘glorious’ british empire.

          • >>>>That’s a cool book:

            =============
            Give me a Bank — a paper Bank,
            The best machine for saving labor,
            For who would toil and sweat himself,
            When there’s a chance to sweat his neighbor.

            Away, now, with your power-looms,
            Revolving Jacks, and spinning Jennies;
            Contrivances for packing wool
            Can’t match the Banks for picking pennies.

            Ex nihil nihil fit,” was once
            A maxim much in vogue with some;
            But few indeed can now maintain
            That “nothing can from nothing come.”

            For though the ancients could convert
            Their gold to rags, (as we are told,)
            Yet we, in times more civilized
            Can make from rags the best of gold.

            All hail, then, glorious alchemy,
            That can from nothing something make !
            What pity things created thus,
            Their primal form are prone to take.

            So let us have a Bank, my boys !
            A fortune thus we all may win:
            Like lilies of the valley live,
            Who “toil not, neither do they spin!”

            With paper, then, all debts we’ll pay,
            And should our credit once get low,
            It never comes amiss to say,
            “The Government has made it so!”

  8. Jct: http://johnturmel.com/bankmath.htm explains that if you take your money out of the banks, their reserves go down and they have to call in more loans. Take out more money to pay those loans and their reserves go down and they have to call in more loans. That’s how to teach the bankers a lesson, crash their system and our economies too! Har har har. That’ll teach them!

  9. Reblogged this on syndax vuzz.

  10. EchoVector permalink

    That’s all well and good, what WTF do you do when your employer refuses to cut you a paper check and insists on direct deposit? You are limited to X amount in daily withdrawals, so if you get paid once per month it can take days to get all of your cash back out.

    Then there are fees for not maintaining a balance in the very account you are REQUIRED to have in order to get paid.

    • It certainly requires a little effort EchoVector, but it’s just another routine that will sort itself out. And if you get a monthly income, do you still have to pay this stupid fee? It’s annoying, they charge you for everything, including not having any money. Anyway: all the more reason to get rid of them……..

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