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Hungary: no Debt-Free Money

October 6, 2013
Viktor Orban

A recent story claiming Hungary is now printing its own debt-free money has shocked the Truth community. It is false though. Some nationalist reaction is going in Hungary, but it’s a far cry from genuine monetary reform.

The story originated at the American Free Press. It was linked to at innumerable sites and took Facebook by storm, but unfortunately it is incorrect. Having asked AFP for a reaction, I was told it was an unfortunate editing slip: the story was not passed by the financial editor.

Perhaps I should have reported on this earlier, I did on Facebook a couple of times, but better late than never. Bill Still was more astute and did a solid analysis of the situation about a month ago, see below.

There is some sort of nationalist reaction going on in Hungary. The Government, led by Viktor Orban, has paid off the last outstanding 2,2 billion dollar loan to the IMF and kicked them out of the country. There were no mutual pleasantries when the IMF goons left Budapest. This did not amuse his European ‘partners’, as is also the case with his policy of gaining more influence over monetary policy. ‘Independent’ Central Banks are at the core of modern economics and politics. Surely we don’t want the people to know what Central Banks are up to? Let alone decide on monetary policy? Bankers know best.

Another issue is that Orban has made clear Hungary will not be joining the Euro for the time being. A great relief for Hungarians, but the Eurocrats consider this an uncalled for snub. Considering what happened to the Euro hostile Polish leadership only a short while ago, Orban is certainly showing a lot of courage. Taking an independent line while located between the Russia and the EU is a tricky proposition, requiring both balls and dexterity.

However, for the time being the Hungarian Forint is still produced by the Banks, as an interest-bearing debt to them. Until that changes, nothing really does.


  1. Government “sell” money to the banks? Is Bill a shill? His “solution” does nothing for the people.

    The problem is interest, not “fiat.” Treating money as a commodity is how banks work now.

    I don’t care who is being usurious, I just want it to all stop. Money is like a measuring stick. Would you buy an inch? Would you limit the height of your building because you don’t have a ruler long enough to measure to the top?

    The best system for monetary reform I have encountered is Mathematically Perfected Economy. Unfortunately, MPE relies on government force to outlaw usury. I would prefer we simply stop cheating one another because it is unsavory and unfair to others. The Golden Rule.

    • Does Mike want to outlaw Usury? Why? Interest-free credit makes Usury obsolete. Nobody is going to borrow at 5% if he can get some at 0%.

      • Looks like field marshall Strobach has another achilles heel. You are going to have to get up early in the morning to fool the Mickster Mike! 🙂

        “Mark Lane, the Jewish lawyer and C.I.A. agent who owns Liberty Lobby and American Free Press, was born in New York City in 1927, the son of Harry Arnold and Elizabeth Levin (Levin was changed to Lane in the 1920s). Charles Garry, the principal lawyer for Jim Jones and his People’s Temple movment, blamed Lane for the mass killing of 913 Americans in Jonestown in November 1978. Lane reportedly went to Switzerland with the business manager of Jonestown shortly after the mass killing and emptied Jones’ secret bank accounts. The missing funds, estimated to be as much as $18 million, were never accounted for.”

    • Nothing is too big a word: it does solve interest payments by the State. Bill is migrating on the Usury issue, but I agree: he does not solve interest-slavery for the commoner with this proposal.

  2. Hungary and Iceland did the right thing.The Euro is doomed Just like the dollar.

    • Hungary and Iceland may have done the right thing, but let’s face it, Hungary is not in the Euro because Germany does not want any new comers. They have enough contries to keep up with.

      • Yes but I admire them for kicking the moneychangers out.The EU will soon be toast.Merkel is a tool of the banksters.A shame the German voters could not see that.

  3. john permalink

    Bro Nate weighs in on end the fed and beats up on Ron Paul and the Austrians.

    • Yes, I saw it, he did well!

    • “Bro Nate”, that’s pretty neat for yet another actor committing high treason:

      • mwoah……….. That would be one hell of an artificial beard, John Landis is still in he public light. I must say they both have a somewhat incongruous body language and I often don’t know what to make of the Bro because of his unnatural style, but this seems a little far fetched.

        • john permalink

          it does seem far-fetched but in today’s world but you can’t be sure so my radar is now up. I do like the content of this site and hope it continues.

        • His style is definitely anything but natural, that’s why he aroused my suspicions in the first place, long before I ran into the vid.

          • john permalink

            the entire website is on the bizarre side. after all it claims JFK and Jackie are jimmy and Rosalyn carter. That being said, today deception knows no bounds and one must be careful of who they read. the best idea is read as many as humanly possible.

          • Seeing that JFK is Carter is a no-brainer, it’s so flamingly out in the open it brings tears to my eyes. I am on the fence re Rosalyn, but my stance is, if just a one of these findings is true, that’s enough to send ripples through the universe. Okay, enough of these off-topic observations already. 😉

          • Jeepers, DieFreiwirtin, you’re right!! The second I saw this, I saw JFK’s and Carter’s lips…….the semblance IS uncanny!

          • On second thought: JFK was born in 1917. It seems a little bit unlikely that Jimmy Carter is really 96, he looks a little too dynamic for that kind of age.

            But the resemblance is uncanny, it’s amazing.

          • john permalink

            I just watched this guy’s documentary on his website. the resemblances are indeed amazing but some of the ages don’t line up and it seems people have to be in too many places at one time. The most intriguing aspect of the documentary is at 31 minutes in where there is footage before Oswald was shot in the police station. it does indeed appear it could have been staged. it is followed later by the JD Tippit killing supposedly by Oswald. It probably never happened. With the revelations today about false flags and crisis actors it’s not hard to figure how they can go back farther in time than I thought. Maybe the only history you can say is real is the history you live yourself. sorry for the off-topic discussion but this became intriguing after seeing the video on brother nate.

          • john permalink

            I’m a staunch JFK supporter. He was a builder- meaning he wanted to build America up and not tear it down. His printing of treasury notes was only one aspect of a presidency that was oh so different than we’ve ever experienced since. He avoided a nuclear war, signed nuclear non-proliferation treaties and I believe would have avoided the Vietnam war. I don’t believe JFK is alive and played carter. but I’m open to the possibility that not everything you saw then was real. This crisis acting stuff may go back to the beginning of tv and radio. once again sorry to be off-topic.

          • jfk had rfk trying to force the jewish lobby to register as a foreign institution and end their political control by corruption, and he idolized hitler! jfk also would have prevented Israel from achieving nuclear capabilities, his demand to inspect dimona could have changed history…

    • I can’t get past bro Nate’s phony circus hat.

  4. Good post. Thanks.

  5. “Hungary torches 500 hectares of GM corn to eradicate GMOs from food supply”

    “When it comes to protecting the public from GMOs, Hungary knows how to get the job done: set fire to the fields growing GM corn!

    “GMOs have been banned in 27 countries, and GMOs are required to be labeled in at least 50 countries. In America, where Monsanto has deployed an insidious degree of influence over the legislature and courts, GMOs are neither illegal nor required to be labeled. In fact, 71 U.S. Senators recently voted against a measure that would have allowed states to pass their own food labeling laws.

    “Mark my words: there will come a day when Americans will wish they had burned all the GM corn fields to the ground. But by then it will be too late. The blight will be upon us, and with it comes the starvation, the suffering, the desperation and the riots. Hunger turns all family men into savages, just as greed turns all corporate men into demons.” —

    • Yes Larry, monsanto is spawning super weeks already that punch holes on the expensive tires of farm machinery not to mention the devastating health effects. Only wild turkey and four roses whiskey is now made from non GMO corn and the rest cannot be sold in Europe. Have you noticed fluoride is now banned in Europe? There seems to be a conscious effort not to kill all the slaves there.

      • Dublinsmick – Thanks for the “heads up” on Wild Turkey and Four Roses. I’m not a bourbon drinker but enjoy beer and I was disappointed to find that at least in the US; most beers contain GMOs in corn syrup, corn and rice.

        Apparently Sierra Nevada, Heineken, and Amstel Light are ok but, it looks like Heineken cannot be sold in Germany because of their purity laws (Reinheitsgebot). Some micro breweries may be ok – for a list of some that are probably safe check — and

        • Larry,
          Beer is off topic but if you try Pilsener Urquell you may agree it’s the best beer.

          • I agree! Ridiculously good beer! It’s called Budvar in Chech, the Budweisers took offense of that…………

          • Anthony,
            Feeling thirsty all of a sudden… By the way I was wondering if you and your colleagues ever looked into the documentary suggestion? You are probably aware of Michael Rivero who made the doc “All Wars Are Bankers Wars”. He was on Coast to Coast with George Noory for a half hour on October 8. It seems that the idea of public banking is entering the consciousness of the people more these days, especially with the austerity measures affecting all countries with private central banks. What is the assessment of you and your readers of the derivatives/credit default swaps factor today? The extent of my knowledge is limited to watching the Frontline episode on Brooksley Born “The Warning”. I find it hard to believe that finance industry operators can “bet” that a nation will suffer economic collapse and gain in the process. Rivero warned of a collapse when credit default swaps, bets on the fall of EU nations’ economies, come to be cashed in. I do not pretend to have any knowledge of the nuts and bolts of derivatives/credit default swaps and have not spent any real time and effort to learn that “science”. It just never made sense that someone or some entity could make money by betting on the misfortune of other individuals, companies or nations, and that such transactions should be banned.

          • Unfortunately Rivero simply demonstrated on Coast to Coast that he lies, he does not know how the finances were during the presidency of Washington
            Obviously his only purpose is to generate revenue by selling complete garbage to ignorant people (a very common practice among monetary reformists and conspiracists)

            Fabricated quotes and bold-faced lies are Rivero’s main ingredients

            What is actually “entering the consciousness” is charlatans bullshitting the village idiots; as we could see first hand in the case of “Occupy Wall street” that it were the drags of society into whose consciousness something entered

            There is not one among these peddlers who studied finances, banking, the history of finances and banking; and George Noory is doing a very good job making sure that nothing useful enters into the consciousness, while collecting good money with the 4-hour info-mercial

          • name789,
            If you assert Michael Rivero is a charlatan and peddler bullshitting, I was hoping you could point me in the direction, with the naming of four or five individuals on Earth TODAY, of those who HAVE studied finances, banking and their histories. From what you’re saying I would be very appreciative of getting those names to avert wasting time on charlatans and peddlers. Could you name a powerful documentary or two that would allow people to cut through the bullshit to learn the truth?
            Thank you,

          • (doesn’t matter how much I click on “reply” part of the text is still missing)

            There are people who studied the history of finance in the 19th centure; but none of them are the internet conspiracy peddler types

            my picks (there are more books than days of my life):
            This is a (almost) contemporary history from 1833, of how things were around the time of Washington and after–
            it makes it clear, in short order, that Reviro is outright lying when he writes/says that following the war the U.S. spent money into existence and circulation

            real quotes and real letters of Thomas Jefferson
            this is Jefferson’s eye witness story of the continentals and the assumption–

            this is the legislative history of central banking in the United States 1811-1869

            of course, my pride and joy & claim to infame, the legislative, the true history of greenbacks:—
            Even Larry the leech stated that reading this, completely ruins your illusion that was built up by book-peddlers (that is the reason why none of these groupies around here or elsewhere would dare to go near it)

            these 3 chapters from Gustavus Myers give a stomach turning description of the early years, prior to the revolution:—

            I would recommend you acquire a copy of “The True History of the American Revolution” by Sydney George Fisher, published in 1902. (General Cornwallis did more for the succes fo the revolution than Washington; Cornwallis did everything he could NOT to defeat the insurgents)

            There is also, Charles Austin Beard, “The Rise of American Civilization”

            I do not “assert” that Reviro is telling falsehoods; I listened to coast to coast, i happen to be somewhat familiar with the situation at the time of Washington, so immediatelly knew that the guy was telling absolute hogwash; the next day visited his what really happened website (which until then i thought was dedicated to 911), read 3 of his postings on money, and noticed the fabricated quotes and the same old story built on them

          • HI Jerry,

            Yeah, recently I’ve been thinking on writing a bit on derivatives. I haven’t yet, focusing on the fundamenals.

            But you can bet your life, that these people are betting on yours and the nation’s. Most derivatives are based on interest-rates, which they controle themselves, of course. The derivative trade is what is really driving events at this point. The top 6 Wall Street banks are the counterparty to 99% of these derivatives and they are moving heaven and earth to have all these contracts met to the full. It’s bankrupting the ‘non-sophisticated’ investors. Like Detroit, pension funds and the like.

            yes, I have been thinking about your documentary suggestion and am moving on it, slowly though.

          • Anthony,
            I can see a film similar to the short videos that Luke (forgot his last name Rudinski maybe?) over at We Are Change captures. A simple collection of clips where average people are asked the question “what is the Federal Reserve” and “how is money created”. Devote 2/3 of the film to those and the last 1/3 to people who know. Simple but effective.
            Back to derivatives, am I correct when my view is that these guys basically create contracts/derivatives/complex financial instruments (that congressmen and others can’t understand) worth billions of dollars out of thin air? Do you know of any excellent documentaries about derivatives?

          • Thanks for the tip Jerry, I’ll keep it in mind.

            About the derivatives: it’s another issue where confusion rules and very few have what it takes to lay it down simply. I don’t have anything to offer at this point…………

          • I really appreciate all of the info, I had quit drinking Guiness when I found out they used GMO corn syrup.

  6. By denoting their bonds in the national currency (Forint); Hungary retains more sovereignty over the creation of new money. A nation gives up much control when it chooses to have its debt denominated in other currencies. Usually “sovereign” debt contracts with supra-nationals and international finance include stipulations against future lending in other currencies. They take control of national economies in this manner.

    It seems obvious but I’ll say it anyways, no sovereign nation can have an independent economy when the money creation reigns are held by others; outside of the democracy/republic.

    Hungary holds the authority to sell more bonds whenever they want if they maintain their national financial independence. Yea, it is still usury and the auctions must be succesful but it may be a stepping stone to bigger things.

    Japan is probably the consummate “self lender” as they hold almost all of their debt domestically (yea, they do push investment funds towards national bonds). They owe no one outside of Japan.

    We’ll have to watch where Hungary goes but there is the potential to implement non-usurious policies – e.g. 0% mortgages guaranteed by the state with marketing and transaction fees instead of interest.

    If you’re squeamish about “national mortgage guarantees”, remember that in the U.S., over 95% of the total mortgage debt outstanding is guaranteed by the government. The real crazy part of this is that contractually, the government does not gain the deed upon default! They are junior to other interests.

  7. >>>>>Hahahahahaha, you fell for that AFP garbage piece about Hungarian Debt Free money?
    Wasn’t it Larry the leech who brought that good news to this forum ? (didn’t hear your remark then; and, as usual, now you pass yourself off as bringer of news; you are learning much from your mentor)


    according to the law that took effect on March 4, 2013, the National Bank of Hungary has one share (face value 10billion forint) this one share is owned by the State of Hungary

    anyone could have troubled himself looking the Bank’s website
    ” The primary objective of the MNB shall be to achieve and maintain price stability. Without prejudice to its primary objective, the MNB shall support the economic policy of the Government using the monetary policy instruments at its disposal. ”

    a third Bank of the United States is highly necessary and proper to the establishment and maintenance of a sound currency, and for the cheap and safe collection, keeping, and disbursing of the public revenue. —Abraham Lincoln

    The opposite of “legal tender” is lawful money. According to Scripture, lawful money has intrinsic value, like gold, silver, corn, wheat, honey, beans, oil.

    • I shouldn’t defend myself Name, because self is not worth defending, but here I go: the day this story broke in August I immediately checked it, because it was too good to be true and posted a rebuttal on Facebook!

      It’s a good quote, I didn’t realize they nationalized the Central Bank, but I did write on Facebook they seemed to be moving more to a Russia style Public Banking kind of environment, although I don’t know who owns the banks there.
      I don’t get the ‘intrinsic value’ bit and don’t really believe these idiots of the US judiciary are the ones to decide on what’s what in money. And you should stop the ‘intrinsic value’ nonsense, even Gary North doesn’t believe Gold had ‘intrinsic value’ anymore: there is market value, not ‘intrinsic’ value.

      Paper has market value too.

      The just weights and measures, however, are important. That’s why I would resist a Gold Standard as unit of account (let alone a fully redeemable standard), because its price is constantly manipuated.

      Just weights and measures are basically provided by CPI (should it be measured realisticly) because then we know how money’s worth is changing over time. Best would be to have a stable CPI, which would occur should volume grow and shrink with economic activity. Money could even be pegged to something else, for instance a laborer’s hour of work.

      • off course, it is not your style to offer support to your staements……
        >>>>it was too good to be true and posted a rebuttal
        I failed to notice your rebuttal to Larry leech’s post……

        >>>>>I don’t get the ‘intrinsic value’ bit
        then click on the link and ask questions of the man who posted the piece on honest measures….

        (nothing has intrinsic value; things are only valuable when there are people around to value them)

        • of course, you’re too much of a man to go facebook Name, I understand and appreciate that. But you’re welcome to visit check the august messages there. You’ll find what I’ve been saying, even two of them, different at that. Don’t forget to like the page while you’re at it!

          • No, I don’t visit facebook period

            I generally browse javaScript disabled, so faceBook don’t even show up

      • I fell for it also, actually had a post on Hungary breaking free. Nope

  8. Hi,
    Thanks for this post.Many european union members are legally bound to join the euro zone but several countries are committed to staying outside it. I think Hungary should be in no rush to join euro rather wait for a perfect call.

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. Hungary: no Debt-Free Money | Real Currencies | ThisRightNow
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  4. Hungary: no Debt-Free Money | Real Currencies | Free Money
  5. Hungary Is Reported To Be Printing Its Own Debt Free Money | ukgovernmentwatch
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