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Socialism is not the Answer to Capitalism

November 25, 2013
Karl Marx did not attack Usury

(Left: the deeply troubled Karl Marx was used by the Banking Fraternity to create the evil dialectical twin to Capitalism, for the purposes of organizing the opposition and directing history)

Capitalism redistributes from the many to the few. It is a global monopoly in private hands.

Socialism then goes on to claim private property is the problem. It says this will be solved by nationalizing it. It is a monopoly in State hands.

But what good does it for the poor if the wealth is transferred from the rich to the State? Especially when we consider that the extremely wealthy have always owned the State? It is for that reason they financed Marx and the Bolshevist revolution, after all.

Capital intends to consolidate its private monopoly in State hands, in a World Government.

The problem is not private property. The problem is too much private property in too few hands. The problem is the ongoing redistribution of the private property of the many into the hands of a few. By the creation of artificial scarcity and associated high prices by Monopoly.

And the mother of all monopolies is the monopoly of money. As long as the Plutocracy can control the money supplies of the nations with its global Banking Cartel, and tax it with Usury, which is paid by the poor who need to borrow to the rich who lend, and which globally redistributes up to 10 Trillion per year to the very richest, we will never have either Justice, or Freedom.

Interest-Free Credit Now!

Interest-Free Money Now 2

And here is an excellent TEDx talk by Jem Bendell on the problems of our money and the coming revolution in alternative currencies.

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  1. Interesting article. Interesting on a few levels not least of which is The question; “are we even living in a capitalist system?” I would argue, as I did on question time 3 weeks ago, that we live in a state sponsored system backed, not by capital but by Debt and not by a free market but by a rigged market. So given this I no longer label myself as right, left or centre for I see it in terms of; “am I in or out of the club?” A club which is fundamentally is a highly corrupt oligarchy. I would like to think I am out though I do recognise that I am living within a system in which I collude with that corruption on a regular basis !

    • Nixon Scraypes permalink

      This has become a demonstration of how the money power keeps it’s power.Muddle the debate! One can’t tell the deluded from the deluders.No wonder the bankers have run the show for thousands of years.I think Anthony must be getting somewhere to have attracted so many trolls to his site.What’s the betting that Mr Hitlerfan is sitting at the keyboard in his yarmulke?

      • apollonian permalink

        “Muddling what debate”?–Anthony has yet to demonstrate anything wrong w. commodity money–he merely makes assertions using terminology (“usury”) he fails to define. He and his buddies insist gold is limited in quantity and this is somehow a problem–which it isn’t. For if money in circulation diminishes in quantity, the value of it (buying power) goes up.

          • apollonian permalink

            deleted, see comment policy

          • I posted the video because I’m not really interest in another tediously contentious debate with someone addicted to the austrian koolaid. Whenever I have such masochistic impulses I usually post on Tom Woods forums.


            Still did not say it’s okay to counterfeit: to misrepresent the value of money by fractional reserve lending — which is only possible with commodity based currencies.

            Interest free fiat is not counterfeiting because the only change involved is the abolishment of the unearned rents charged by private banks for its use. No interest should be charged because it is not a commodity, but only a medium of exchange. In and of itself it is valueless and serves only to facilitate the commercial transaction of goods, services and labors.

            If you would rather pay an unearned rent for the use of a currency fractionally backed by a commodity controlled by private cabals, then be my guest. Huxley said that people will be made to love their enslavement. It seems that he was right about die hard Austrians.

          • forget the hollow words apollonian.

            ‘Choice’, ‘Freedom’, ‘Mutually Beneficial Exchange’, ‘Liberty’, ‘Voluntary’. These are all just pleasant sounding slogans.

            Here’s what it’s all about: if you take out a mortgage of 200k @5%, you pay 200k for the principal and another 300k interest over the following thirty years.

            That’s the problem of money.

            The Austrians say: ‘That’s unfair! They don’t have the money and print it with fractional reserve banking! We want to get a loan in gold and pay it back + interest in gold! Now THAT is fair’.

            The Interest-Free Economics community says: ‘Grand! Money printing! Couldn’t be cheaper! Let’s do it interest-free’.

            Now, forget the ‘COUNTERFEITING (why do you Austrians always have to CAPITALIZE?): here’s the real question:

            If you could choose between taking out a mortgage @5% at a Gold bank or 0% at an interest-free credit facility, where would you go?

            Please don’t do what most Austrians do when faced with this question: write lengthy posts without answering the question.

          • apollonian permalink

            deleted, see comment policy

  2. Interesting article. Interesting on a few levels not least of which is The question; “are we even living in a capitalist system?” I would argue, as I did on question time 3 weeks ago, that we live in a state sponsored system backed, not by capital but by Debt and not governed by the values of a free market but by a rigged market. Given this I no longer label myself as right, left or centre for I see it in terms of; “am I in or out of the club?” A club which is fundamentally a highly corrupt oligarchy. I would like to think I am out though I do recognise that I am living within a system in which I collude with that corruption on a regular basis !

    • marxbites permalink

      Carlin said it best in WTTE, its their club and we peons will NEVER be members.

    • Is a Yakusa the only recourse for those not in the “Club”?

      • marxbites permalink

        Re-adoption of free market money by the masses might be one way.

        Or, good men refusing to do nothing.

        Or, simply awakening a sadly long propagandized humanity to the non-establishment versions of history.

        Voting ALL the bastards out.

        Because for all intents and purposes, the globalist controllers of the world includes the mafiosos and yakuzas imo.

        On August 17, 1975 Senator Frank Church stated on NBC’s Meet the Press without mentioning the name of the NSA about this agency:

        “ In the need to develop a capacity to know what potential enemies are doing, the United States government has perfected a technological capability that enables us to monitor the messages that go through the air. Now, that is necessary and important to the United States as we look abroad at enemies or potential enemies. We must know, at the same time, that capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left such is the capability to monitor everything—telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn’t matter. There would be no place to hide.

        If this government ever became a tyrant, if a dictator ever took charge in this country [11/22/63? mb] the technological capacity that the intelligence community has given the government could enable it to impose total tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back because the most careful effort to combine together in resistance to the government, no matter how privately it was done, is within the reach of the government to know. Such is the capability of this technology. I don’t want to see this country ever go across the bridge. I know the capacity that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see to it that this agency and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return.[9][10][11]

        Almost there aren’t we?

  3. As G.K. Chesterton said: “Too much capitalism is not too many capitalists, but too few capitalists”

    • apollonian permalink

      Good one, comrade–took me a couple of looks and read-overs of ur comment to “get-it,” ho ho ho

  4. marxbites permalink

    No, capitalism as coined by Marx is corporatism, aka mercantilism. And it’s biggest proponents were and are big banks and big business special interests.

    It has NOTHING to do with free enterprise and rule of law whereby contracts can be legally enforced but are otherwise completely voluntary.

    Without peeking, WHO wrote this Anthony??

    “Businessmen or manufacturers can either be genuine free enterprisers or statists; they can either make their way on the free market or seek special government favors and privileges. They choose according to their individual preferences and values. But bankers are inherently inclined toward statism.

    Commercial bankers, engaged as they are in unsound fractional reserve credit, are, in the free market, always teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. Hence they are always reaching for government aid and bailout. Investment bankers do much of their business underwriting government bonds, in the United States and abroad. Therefore, they have a vested interest in promoting deficits and in forcing taxpayers to redeem government debt. Both sets of bankers, then, tend to be tied in with government policy, and try to influence and control government actions in domestic and foreign affairs.

    In the early years of the 19th century, the organized capital market in the United States was largely confined to government bonds (then called “stocks”), along with canal companies and banks themselves. Whatever investment banking existed was therefore concentrated in government debt. From the Civil War until the 1890s, there were virtually no manufacturing corporations; manufacturing and other businesses were partnerships and had not yet reached the size where they needed to adopt the corporate form. The only exception was railroads, the biggest industry in the U.S. The first investment banks, therefore, were concentrated in railroad securities and government bonds.

    The first major investment-banking house in the United States was a creature of government privilege. Jay Cooke, an Ohio-born business promoter living in Philadelphia, and his brother Henry, editor of the leading Republican newspaper in Ohio, were close friends of Ohio U.S. Senator Salmon P. Chase. When the new Lincoln Administration took over in 1861, the Cookes lobbied hard to secure Chase the appointment of Secretary of the Treasury. That lobbying, plus the then enormous sum of $100,000 that Jay Cooke poured into Chase’s political coffers, induced Chase to return the favor by granting Cooke, newly set up as an investment banker, an enormously lucrative monopoly in underwriting the entire federal debt.

    Cooke and Chase then managed to use the virtual Republican monopoly in Congress during the war to transform the American commercial banking system from a relatively free market to a National Banking System centralized by the federal government under Wall Street control. A crucial aspect of that system was that national banks could only expand credit in proportion to the federal bonds they owned – bonds which they were forced to buy from Jay Cooke. Jay Cooke & Co. proved enormously influential in the post-war Republican administrations, which continued their monopoly in under-writing government bonds. The House of Cooke met its well-deserved fate by going bankrupt in the Panic of 1874, a failure helped along by its great rival, the then Philadelphia-based Drexel, Morgan & Co.

    J.P. Morgan

    After 1873, Drexel, Morgan and its dominant figure J.P. Morgan became by far the leading investment firm in the U.S. If Cooke had been a “Republican” bank, Morgan, while prudently well connected in both parties, was chiefly influential among the Democrats. The other great financial interest powerful in the Democratic Party was the mighty European investment-banking house of the Rothschilds, whose agent, August Belmont, was treasurer of the national Democratic party for many years. The enormous influence of the Morgans on the Democratic administrations of Grover Cleveland (1884–88, 1892–96) may be seen by simply glancing at their leading personnel. Grover Cleveland himself spent virtually all his life in the Morgan ambit. He grew up in Buffalo as a railroad lawyer, one of his major clients being the Morgan-dominated New York Central Railroad. In between administrations, he became a partner of the powerful New York City law firm of Bangs, Stetson, Tracey, and MacVeagh. This firm, by the late 1880s, had become the chief legal firm of the House of Morgan, largely because senior partner Charles B. Tracey was J.P. Morgan’s brother-in-law. After Tracey died in 1887, Francis Lynde Stetson, an old and close friend of Cleveland’s, became the firm’s dominant partner, as well as the personal attorney for J.P. Morgan. (This is now the Wall St. firm of Davis, Polk, and Wardwell.)………..”

    This Economist & Historian author Anthony, is the cure for your misguided assumptions of the massive problems these villains have represented to humanity for centuries and the proper free market voluntary cure to their galloping evil.

    Except your abject one mindedness keeps you from reading him. Just as my Republican blindness kept me from even searching for the truth for 52 of my 61 years.

    OK go ahead and search the first line now.

  5. marxbites permalink

    Interest free money is NOT the solution. For in voluntary transactions, interest is merely the premium paid for obtaining a good one has not first saved in full to purchase.

    OTOH, principle and interest on fraudulent and asset-free paper debt money is PURE THEFT and the ROOT OF EVIL plaguing the world since 1694’s est. of the BoE. The King’s Currency Act per Franklin was the prime impetus for American colonists to throw the bastards OUT!

    Hence ONLY commodity or commodity backed, free market money IS the CURE that plutocrats were unable to control nations of peoples, and hence their central banks brought on by one after another of their perpetual wars.

    • Nonsense marxbites! Your fanaticism is admirable in many respects, but you have never come around to explaining how it will be different if the poor pay up to 10 Trillion per year to the rich in Gold coin instead of paper.
      Until you do that, you’re barking up the wrong tree!

      • marxbites permalink

        Doesn’t HAVE to be gold, unless we are first able to repossess it from the criminals who stole most all of it. It COULD be rice for all I care.

        So who was the author I quoted and why no response? Isn’t it apparent he, like we both, consider the banksters cartel syndicate the prime enemies of ALL mankind with their asset free debt w/interest paper of currency and civilization’s debauchery?

        Read up on ARJ Turgot, the French FinMin who’s lost job brought on the French Terror.

        VOLUNTARY is the key Anthony, and ALL govt “legal tender by diktat” isn’t, and never was nor will be free of coercion.

        • It doesn’t have to backed, full stop. The only question backing creates is who controls the stuff backing it.

          Legal tender laws are antiquated. Nobody accepts the dollar because ‘statist violence’ is forcing them to, they accept them because they love ‘m and can buy other stuff with them.

          Voluntary is nice, but not very relevant (see previous note) and used by Libertarianism to sell the choice between a rock and a hard place.

          Listen Marxbites: the question is always the same: if you can chose between a 5% mortgage from a bullion bank or an interest-free one from a public one, which do you chose?

          • marxbites permalink

            WE DO silly.

            IF we don’t trust the bank we deal with, we redeem paper for the asset we deposited.

            THAT way, the banks as individual banks must stand on their own bottoms, like ALL businesses must do, or get run on.

            For there was a time when the principles of free banks, that lent more than they should have to stay solvent, get run outa business and their estates would be depleted to make depositors whole. Bankers face no such free market restraints today whatsoever. B/c as you correctly say, they are govt sanctioned criminal monopolies.

            Real money is just another commodity we use to facilitate trade more easily with. It just happens that in 5000 years of history mankind chose the best and most efficient of the possible commodities to be used in intermediary trade was gold and silver for its best properties as money. High value to weight, homogeneous, corrosion free, store of value & universal acceptability, as it is also valued for use in jewelry and industry.

            Only the banksters “relieved” us of this as they sought the greater control & profits to be had with fiat from thin air w/interest by increment over many generations.

            From 1913 to 1932, our paper dollars were fully redeemable. Even though the FED rolled presses in the teens and twentys, the inflations bringing on the great depression. After ww2 we had a pseudo gold std that Rockefeller puppet and JFK hit accomplice Nixon totally ended in 1971.

            And THAT is when America’s spending and inflation unbound by real money actually began its upward slope, now gone absolutely parabolic, along with all other BIS controlled fiat currencies.

            And that’s total BS that we use the dollar out of love. We use it ONLY because use of alternatives is verboten, eg the jailing of the man the created the silver Liberty dollars, von Nothaus (sp?).

            You cannot ignore what Jackson did for America in his killing off the den of vipers and thieves then in control.

            After the correction prosperity returned, the fed’l debt paid off completely, and excess revenues returned to the states.

            IMO our Civil War was the mechanism the banksters fomented to re-impose their control. And for the Czar’s coming to Lincoln’s aid, he eventually got his JFK style and their bank then finally imposed on Russia.

            Who the hell wouldn’t like interest free loans? Problem is, as history tells us, that NO ONE should be in control of the creation of money from nothing. B/c even Lincoln’s greenbacks were NOT COST free, they were inflated & depreciated also, just as were the Continentals, eg another monetary robbery. And the South lost only because ii inflated Dixies even worse than the greenbacks were.

            BTW the decade of the 1880’s saw in America our greatest period of economic growth EVER, and NOT solely for the already wealthy and powerful, but for the common man as well in the slow and good kind of deflation that innovation always brings in the raising of all people’s living standards.

            Specie as money was never the problem, except for the problem of bi-metalism ratios easily corrected, but rather the concentration of power is always humanity’s greatest threat and foe..

          • A lot of words to dance around a simple question marxbites!!

          • marxbites permalink

            Well Its NOT my fault you never REALLY studied the history of money and banking.

            Gold WORKED as it was supposed to when corrupt govt didn’t give banksters monopoly cartels.


            or audio FREE to download


          • Dark Dirk permalink

            Yea, gold worked for bankers. Every money that can be hoarded and stopped from circulation are good for bankers, because bankers can pile them, loan them, and charge interest on that loans. As I said it before, I will say it again: If there is no demurrage, there is no reform.

          • marxbites permalink

            WADR, that’s baloney Dirk, MINERS supply the gold just as the market demands it. Its a totally self regulating cycle of supply and demand.

            You should read or listen to Rothbard’s History of Money & Banking linked above.

            There was no scarcity of specie, it was shylock’s, via KGIII Currency Act, imposing the pound sterling as legal tender that brought depression & unemployment to the colonists.

            Just as the banksters cause all financial calamities via non-market interventions, they are the masters of ALL WARS, who’s fraudulent fiat to be lent to their kings & president puppets without, there’d be no wars.

            See in his essay No Treason…. in section XVIII he reveals what in his post Civil War perspective, illuminates the criminals.


            Louis Brandeis’ “Other People’s Money…” is also a good read/listen



            And JUST like Greenslime always was a sound money man, he too was made an offer he couldn’t refuse shylock.

          • Dark Dirk permalink

            Every money (gold, silver, stones) that can be locked in a safe are good for bankers. Because they can hoard them and manipulate theirs volume. If we want to remove usury, we have to use demurrage currency. You cannot repeat the same system (gold standart, silver standart) again and again, and except to achieve different result. The result always will be the same. Bankers will end up with all money, and they will give them away only as loans with interest. If there is no demurrage there is no reform. All other ideas like bitcoin, mutual credit system, social credit, public banking are just subcases of the current money system of absolute money. If you want something new you have to kill money. You have to take the power out from them and make them mortal like all other thing on that planet. Money should have only one function: means of exchange. You cannot save money, because money have value only when there is someone who wants them. You cannot eat gold when there is no goods on the market, you also cannot eat paper or nubmers. Saving of money is fiction that is used by bankers to rob you.

          • marco van heugten permalink

            yep kill money love love, tnx

          • marco van heugten permalink

            did i say kill money. to much a do. ignore it. focus somewhere else..

      • marxbites permalink

        With real commodity non debt-with-interest money there isn’t a problem, and the ONLY problem was bi-metalism AND the govt extending to banksters the special and unequal privilege of NOT redeeming the people’s held paper notes for specie.

        Never gonna read ANY Rothbard will you?

  6. marco van heugten permalink

    the guy in the vid explains exactly how we came to where we are now.. all these new coins will attract new speculators as is already happening with bit-coins.. and then these ‘new coins’ will be decided to ‘cluster’ to form a new, more efficient one, maybe through an expanding empire maybe another way.. and the story repeats – so even as a thought-experiment it won’t hold.. at the same time: i wish every good luck with their coins & in thinking love, the natural sharing would make money less decisive till obsolete, i love that one, as a though-experiment..

    • marco van heugten permalink

      without typo’s: ‘i wish everybody good luck with their coins & in thinking love, the natural sharing would make money less decisive till obsolete, i love that one, as a thought-experiment..

  7. I like the local currency strategy advocated by this blog, however, in this age of the Big Brother State it has one severe weakness: new currency can easily be prosecuted by the private banker sponsor govt as an attempt to commit counterfeiting fraud.

    Public banks cannot be accused of this crime as they are not making a new currency; they are only reforming the existing one — by refusing to charge interest. I know that the private banks consider this the worst conceivable crime, but would never dare persecute a public bank on these grounds, for fear of arousing public enlightenment regarding the root of all evils, usury. And as long as cities and states possess the right to charter their own public banks, I believe its a significant advantage.

    • Oh, my beef is with usury pm, I don’t care what works, as long as we get rid of it.

      The strategy I promote is war on all fronts, simply because the enemy brings it to us on all fronts anyway.

      Asymmetric warfare is always a good idea if you’re outgunned on the adversary’s preferred battlefield.

      I’m all for Public Banking………as long as it is interest-free. The Public Banks of today are not and Brown’s proposals are not interest-free either. Although she’s hardly sympathetic to it, she basically claims the problem is solved if the usury is paid to the State and I don’t agree with that at all.

      So what I’m saying is: do it all at the same time. Let everybody follow their own agenda they believe most in, and empower the others working in the same direction with different proposals.

      Ultimately some sort of National Money is unavoidable and I think there will always be a place for regional and other alternative currencies too, in an optimal situation.

      • Do you think that you could sometime in the future post a permanent link on your blog that would list the books and articles that you believe to be essential to understanding monetary reform? This would be a great help to all that wish to gain a deeper more well rounded education on a subject you distill so well in your work.

        • apollonian permalink

          You Need To Grasp: It’s Either-Or–Freedom And Commodity Money, Or Dictatorship & Horror
          (Apollonian, 27 Nov 13)

          Ho ho hohoho–“PM”: Anthony is advocate of legalized COUNTERFEITING–he just pretends it’s ok long as it’s done by gov., not “privately,” and u don’t charge interest, ho ho ho ho.

          But any COUNTERFEITING (legalized or not)–whether int. is charged or not, or whether done by gov. or privately–always and necessarily leads to inflation, corruption, and degeneration.

          Don’t doubt there’s been instances of gov. inflation without “debt” (charging interest)–like the Confederate system of US Civil war, and the French Assignats, during F. Revolution–they still led to inflation and destruction of the economic system.

          Note economics is TOTALLY and absolutely dependent upon the legal system–and this requires reason, natural-law, rule-of-law, sanctity-of-contract, AND gov. keeping OUT OUT OUT of economics, including ESPECIALLY the monetary system. All gov. properly does is to provide system of arbitration (courts).

          So Anthony wants to practice effective socialist-style dictatorship w. his fiat-money system, only without charging interest, and pretending/insisting he’s consistent w. freedom.

          WHY is it gold and silver (commodity-based) money system ALWAYS works, hist. demonstrating–and always works without gov. interference and forcing it upon people?–and why isn’t this system of freedom and commodity-based money good enough for Anthony?–is it because he’s fixated w. preconception that, gee whiz, there’s something wrong w. commodity-based money–which he can NEVER prove? Ho ho ho ho ho

          • apollonian, why don’t you read up on faux economics, my page dealing with the Austrian nonsense, you can find it to your right.

            Do me a favor, read my discussions with Gary North and the Daily Bell. I’m pretty sure you’ll find there are one or two things you have been missing out on.


          • apollonian permalink

            Anthony Can’t/Won’t Get Past Psycho-Babble–It’ Freedom & Gold Vs. Dictatorship, Period
            (Apollonian, 28 Nov 13)

            Anthony: here’s the problem–w. people like u, it’s always sooooooooooooooooooo “complicated,” isn’t it? If u have something to say, then just say it in ur own words–which u can never do without loading-down ur dialectic w. horrendous psycho-babble and terminology which u can’t define or defend.

            And what’s the problem w. money anyway?–hist. demonstrates gold and silver work perfectly–always. But u want to insist there’s problem w. money but, as usual, can’t say what it is without ur psycho-babble.

            Look: (a) all economics is based upon juris-prudence (law), the legal-system, get it? (b) Thus the free market has all by itself–without need of help fm smart-guys and know-it-alls like urself–developed money naturally–commodity money, usually gold and/or silver–IT WORKS PERFECTLY, and if it doesn’t, u need to say why without the tons of psycho-babble or referring to psycho-babble that u’ve archived somewhere.

            So Anthony: here’s the CONCLUSION: the free market has provided the answer for all to see–commodity money (gold and silver being best). And the ONLY alternative to this free market instrument (commodity money) is to impose DICTATORSHIP–this is what u’re all about.

            It’s either-or: the free market w. freedom and commodity-money–OR DICTATORSHIP–this is what u won’t face-up to, Anthony–ADMIT IT.

          • hahahahaha, well, we can agree that you have memorized the libertarian mantras well apollonian! Listen my friend: I had a friendly request for you: read the articles with the DB and Gary N in faux economics.

            Hint: you lose almost 50% of your disposable income to Usury, even you have zero debts. Silver and Gold are owned by the same people that run these printing presses you hate so much.

            You pay 300k interest over a 200k mortgage that was created by pressing computer buttons.

            Do you really think people paying that kind of money would feel better if they can pay in Gold coins?

            Or is it perhaps better to not pay almost 50% of your income to usury without being in debt and 300k interest over a 200k mortgage, paper or Gold based?

            Ponder these questions a little bit, before boring me and all the others here with this primary school level Austrian crap, ok?

          • apollonian permalink

            Anthony: “usury” is something u fail to define; u just make assertions, larded w. terminology and babble. Usury, as I understand, is NOT mere charging of interest, but regardless, u need to define what u mean, giving a valid reference.

            U don’t even understand money, which is just a commodity used as medium for exchange of other commodities and services. And best commodity for use as this medium of exchange is precious metal like gold and/or silver–as thousands of years of experience and history attest.

            Charging of interest is simply matter of free contract btwn parties, consistent w. free society.

            So I’d conclude u’ve lost the argument: commodity-money is only money consistent w. free society, obviously. The only way to impose non-commodity money is by means of dictatorship.

            U Anthony, are useful to dictators as u insist and assert, w. all ur psycho-babble which confuses things for the people as they take any time to listen to u. Dictators make use of people like u as it gives them some kind of cover as they impose dictatorship, pretending they’ll introduce some improvement which u assert but don’t prove.

            U don’t seem to be capable of simplest exposition, beginning w. clear definitions. Ur first problem then is w. simple language and logical thought. Good luck, comrade.

          • The problem of understanding is yours. Money is not a commodity. Money is solely a medium of exchange. It has no intrinsic marketable worth, like a commodity, and functions only to make an exchange of wealth, labor and services possible between individuals or nations.

            Usury is the making of money from money. It is charging interest, in any amount, for the use of a medium of exchange that can be created ex nihlo.

          • apollonian permalink

            Ok, “PM”: that’s ur opinion–which I’m sure is shared and pushed by many others too. Ur problem is that history (and facts) refutes u. Money, historically, is a commodity w. it’s own intrinsic value, limited in quantity–this history runs for AT LEAST 5,000 yrs, since, we’re pretty sure, even before writing was invented.

            I like ur style, PM: “[m]oney is not a commodity”–as if u’re God, declaring reality to us mere humans, ho ho ho ho ho ho–u don’t even bother giving a reference, ho ho ho o oh ho ho.

            See, dictators, frauds, and criminals want to get away fm money as commodity–so that they can begin issuing it themselves–legalized COUNTERFEITING, as done now w. the US Federal Reserve. Only way to keep away fm this legalized COUNTERFEITING is commodity money, u see, though I’m sure u’re too clever to understand.

    • marco van heugten permalink

      hello. ‘no interest’ goes back, f.i., to the OT. it even mentions a sabbatical year, ‘all debts forgiven’ and a jubilee year (49th of 50th, enough discussion on that!) in which even all ‘property’ is given back to the original ‘owners’, including land (so it’s more about inhabiting) – most.., for many reasons, don’t follow any of this any more, not in judaism, nor in christianity or islam.. if public banking could pick this up would of course be nice. tnx, bye

  8. REN permalink

    C.H. Douglas, excerpted from “The Big Idea,” 1942–CH%20Douglas.pdf

    That is to say, every advance towards Socialism is an advance towards the Police State. Five minutes’ attention to the increase in the number of licenses he now requires in this country (which even yet is less completely enslaved than Russia and Germany) and anyone can see that for himself. And if anyone supposes that the licensing system is purely a war expedient, then I can only envy his optimism.

    Now, it is commonly supposed by those who have not devoted much attention to the subject that the German-Jew, Karl Marx, is the father of modern Socialism. This is incorrect. There is not a single original idea in Marx. “He found everything that his system contains in the British Museum. His Communism was that of Babeuf, his theory of wage slavery was current during the French Revolution, his idea of the class war had originated with Weishaupt, the Illuminist, his theory that labour produces all wealth had been formulated by Robert Owen and the Chartists, his theory of surplus value had also been proclaimed by the Chartists”. (Nesta H. Webster – World Revolution).

    What is much more important is that at the time that Marx was practically living in the British Museum, supported by the German Engels (who had made an immense fortune by exploiting Lancashire child labour), the whole country was ringing with attacks on the financial system, Cobbett was attacking the Bank of “England” and the Jews, Atwood was writing on currency, and the disorganisation and distress which culminated in the “Hungry Forties” were only kept from assuming the proportions of a panic, by the employment provided by railway and canal development on privately subscribed funds. There is not a word about the dominant position and responsibility of finance, to be found in Marx, and Socialism has attacked every form of property, and at this moment is attacking every form of property, except that which is the monopoly of the international financier, and has steadfastly refused to have anything to do with financial reform.

    • Well, that’s a pretty damning critique. I couldn’t agree more.

      • marxbites permalink

        Me three. But Marx also borrowed from Ricardo iirc.

        Whilst in England it was said Marx lived on an income that put him amongst the top few.

        BTW at there’s a good video lecture by Rothbard on the creation of the Federal Reserve.

  9. Kevin Moore permalink

    “….As long as the Plutocracy can control the money supplies of the nations with its global Banking Cartel, and tax it with Usury, which is paid by the poor who need to borrow to the rich who lend, and which globally redistributes up to 10 Trillion per year to the very richest, we will never have either Justice, or Freedom.”
    If the poor have no money then what did the poor have of value that the Banks converted to “10 Trillion” to give to the “very richest”?

    What is it that becomes a Bank asset and what is it that becomes a Bank liability, and does not one cancel the other out?

    Is it acceptable in “Generally Accepted Accounting Principles”, or any moral principle, for Banks in what amounts to an accounting nullity to charge usury on the deposit of a negotiable instrument?

    • REN permalink

      When you take out a loan, the asset side of the ledger is marked. Usually the debtor then redeposits the new “credit money” in the banking system, which is a liability to the banker. When the Credit money refluxes to the ledger, the asset is written down by the principle amount. The usury amount then PASSES through the debtors double entry ledger, to the bankers own double entry ledger. The banker marks HIS double entry ledger asset column with the usury as a profit. The usury is high at first on all loans. That means that a new loan performs right away, as the usury shows up as an asset on the banker’s own ledger. The banker then pays his liabilities, such as payroll etc, returning some of the usury back to the lower loop of the economy. However, a substantial amount then paretos out to to the top 1 percenters, and passes to the upper loop. For spilling ink and keyboard entry, much of humanity is shackled into debt peonage. The bottom loop is always under drain, making money scarce. Some of the stagnant usury capital captured in the upper loop, then rains down onto the lower buying up their output for cheap.

      Accountants lie with figures. The NIPA (national income and product accounts even count usury and sector inflation as “growth.”

      The double entry ledger works fine if we use it for real money. However, when used as an engine for hypothecation, as in banker created money, it is perverted into evil.

      Here is an example of simple ledger mechanics, and shows how banker’s create their money from nothing. It doesn’t show anything about the usury, as things “balance out” in poor accounting methodology. The things off the ledger, the exponential of compounding is not shown. Yes, indeed – it is accepted accounting practice. Come into my room said the spider to the fly.

      When a bank makes a loan its balance sheet changes as follows:

      Assets | Liabilities
      +Loan | + deposit

      (both entries are made out of thin air, they are just spread sheet records).
      After the deposit was withdrawn to another bank (which has to be settled with reserves):

      Assets | Liabilities
      +Loan | + deposit
      – reserves | – deposit

      the bank is now usually short reserves so it has to borrow in the overnight (reserve loop) money market:

      Assets | Liabilities
      +Loan | + deposit
      – reserves | – deposit
      + reserves | +borrowing

      In the end the new loan changes the portfolio as follows:

      Assets | Liabilities
      +Loan | +borrowing

      So the bank is in the business of making a positive spread between the loan and the borrowing it performs to plug the hole in its reserve position. It doesn’t lend anything “out”, it expands its balance sheet, the trick is to get more return on the asset than one pays on the liability.

      And, it gets a hell of lot more on its asset, given the high inputs of usury at the beginning of the cycle. At the end of the cycle, if people do not take out loans, the banker harvests real assets in a foreclosure wave.

    • They gave their labor Kevin!

      • Kevin Moore permalink

        So, then Banks are parasites?

        From The General Epistle of Barnabus Ch.9,
        “………wherefore it is not the command of God that they should not eat these things; but Moses in the Spirit spake unto them, …….neither says he, shalt thou eat the eagle, nor the hawk, nor the kite, nor the crow; that is thou shalt not keep company with such kind of men as know not how by their labour and sweat to get themselves food; but injuriously ravish away the things of others; and watch how to lay snares for them; when at the same time they appear to live in perfect innocence………so these birds alone seek not food for themselves, but sitting idle seek how they may eat of the flesh others have provided; being destructive through their wickedness……..”

        • REN permalink

          Banks currently have three functions: 1) Store our money 2) Distribute our money 3) Create money.

          The first two functions banker’s do admirably. The third function, like a thief in the night, was assumed through trickery and subterfuge. The creation privilege allows them to take rents against society. It is one thing to earn money through labor and effort, and quite another to make money from nothing (which appears as if it was earned). All private bankers will want their “money” legalized through some sort of parasitical control of government. So, on one hand they will demonize government, and on the other hand they will try to control it.

          Mutual credit is different. The credit/debt relations are still between two people, and no banker gets between them. Therefore, mutual credit is real money that is used as a tool for creditors and debtors to do transactions. Like Anthony says, we will probably need both – real money via a new banking system, and mutual credit (which gives diversity and local control).

          Freedom requires an inverted pyramid, where local control systems serve the individual. This is the opposite of statism, or an administrative monopoly state like Communism and Fascist Socialism. (This is why I will always slam the Statists hard, their system is also one of slavery. Monopoly statists of all types must be resisted vigorously, with all of your might.)

          In our current banking system, bankers have insinuated themselves between creditors and debtors; you do not borrow somebody else’s savings. The banker holds the debt instrument, and that is critical. By holding the debt instrument, they control society. Worse, humanity cannot develop as they are locked down in debt peonage, and the people cannot relate to each other in a ‘human’ way. Bankers will harvest assets in a usurious way, whereas if savers hold debt instruments they can forgive or give debt relief. Real money would act like a gift economy, where people treat each other humanely.

          Private bankers (#3) should be stripped of the right to loan money into existence. There should no longer be any banks of issue; only gyro banks (savings banks) should be allowed. The money type then converts, and becomes money instead of bank credit. Everything then changes.

          We cannot allow a hidden pyramid of centralizing money powers. They are moving the world toward one world government, i.e. statist control. The tap root that funds their control, is the money creation privilege.

          • Kevin Moore permalink

            “Anti-Communism is Anti-Semitism.” Jewish Voice, July – August 1941.
            “Some may call it Communism, but I call it what it is: Judaism.” Rabbi Stephen Weiss.

            Excerpts from a copy of the “Manifesto of the Communist Party” [printed in the USSR 1977]

            “The proletariat will use its political supemacy to wrest by degrees, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State,i.e. of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total of productive forces as rapidly as possible.” page 74.

            “In one word you reproach us with intending to do away with your property. Precisely so; that is just what we intend.” page 66.

            “Abolition of the family! Even the most radical flare up at this infamous proposal of the Communists.” page68.

            “The Communists are further reproached with desiring to abolish countries and nationality.” page 71

            “Does it require deep intuition to comprehend that mans ideas, views and conceptions, in one word, mans consciousness, changes with every change in the conditions of his material existence, in his social relations and in his social life?
            What else does the history of ideas prove, than that intelllectual production changes its character in proportion as material production is changed? The ruling ideas of each age have ever been the ideas of the ruling class.” page 72

            “There are, besides, eternal truths, such as Freedom, Justice, etc.,that are common to all states of society. But Communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new basis; it therefore acts in contradiction to all past historical experience.” page73.

          • REN permalink

            Press to reply to see full truncated text:

            Quote from Douglas link already shown:

            “Men make no mistake when they say that this is an ideological war. It is the war of the Old Testament against the New Testament, of Anti-Christ against Christ. This is not apocalyptic raving – it is not even, in the ordinary sense, religion. It will not be featured prominently in the calls to prayer of the “B”BC. It is merely a statement of the trinity of philosophy, policy, and mechanism, brought into the present tense – that two philosophies and two policies, those of world dominion and the materialistic Messiah, on the one hand, and individual freedom on the other, are now at death grips. Anyone who cannot see that Judaism and Christianity have come out of the Synagogues and the Churches into the Banks, the Masonic Lodges, the Cabinets and the workshops, has little to contribute to the direction of victory and still less likelihood of recognising it when it arrives. He will not be greatly assisted by the pronouncements of the Archbishops.”
            (My addition, the Archbishops are “Old Testament Philo-Judaic”Calvinists, a religion created and funded by Sephardic stockbrokers in Amsterdam, prior to the Orange Revolution. Old testament emphasis allowed Jewish entry back into England.)

            Christ came so we could live more abundantly, and in Christ we cherish the individual. Additionally, Christian religion is organized to empower the individual. Thus Christianity is for the inverted pyramid of freedom, and is at war with Statism.

            Modern Judaism is really Talmudic, which in turn is Codified Law from Babylon. The Babylon Mystery Religion was transmitted straight to the Pharisees, and with it knowledge of money power, and how it operates. Douglas pretty much nails the Jewish psych ops method as expressed by the Kabala and the Talmud. Talmud considers all non Jews as cattle, giving sanction to parasitize humanity.

            If analyzing money history is anti-semitic, then so be it. We cannot let them be a block to human development. Jewish group mis- behavior has a lot to answer for.

          • Kevin Moore permalink

            Proverbs 23:1-4, “When you sit down to eat with a ruler, look carefully at what is before you; and put a knife to your throat if you are a possessor of a soul. Do not desire his delicacies, for it is the bread of lies.
            “For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?” Matt. 16:26
            Romans 12:2, “And do not fashion yourself in accordance with this age but undergo a spiritual transformation by the renewing of your mind.”
            Matthew 16:12 “Then they knew that He did not say to take heed from the leaven of bread, but from the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

          • Kevin Moore permalink

            Elizabeth Dilling: The Jewish Religion: Its Influence Today.
            originally titled: The Plot Against Christianity.


            The Anti-Christ

            The Pharisee “synagogue of satan” will have a world head as foretold by “Daniel the prophet.” [Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14; Dan. 7:25; 8:23-25; 9:27; 11:31-39,45; 2Thes.2:1-9]

          • marco van heugten permalink

            Nicodemus.. Gamaliel.. c’mon! please read more intelligent people on ‘pharisees’, this is all very shallow and ultra-reductionist anti-semitic. second-temple studies deserves more. bye now

          • Great stuff REN. Says it all.

      • archivesDave permalink

        Re Comments…
        U need time and dates.
        Can’t make heads or tails of who said what and when.

  10. marxbites permalink

    And don’t forget it was Wall Street that financed the Bolshies AND Adolph both.

    And the Rottenshields had their hands in China since even before the Opium wars just as they were involved in the great slave trading triangle, where my gut says they found A Hamilton, their agent.

  11. archivesDave permalink

    Thnx Anthony,
    Looking forward to more articles by Bill Still and Ellen Brown.
    Also Bitcoin, Litecoin, Feathercoin pros and cons.

  12. The Greenspan led Federal Reserve created two epic bubbles in the space of six years which burst and have done irreparable harm to the net worth of the middle class. Rather than learn the lesson of how much damage to the lives of average Americans has been caused by creating cheap easy money out of thin air, our Ivy League self-proclaimed expert on the Great Depression, Ben Bernanke, has ramped up the cheap easy money machine to hyper-speed. There is nothing normal about the path this man has chosen. His strategy has revealed the true nature of the Federal Reserve and their purpose – to protect and enrich the financial elites that manipulate this country for their own purposes.

  13. Dugan King permalink

    It seems to me that paper money backed by gold or any other commodity is still nothing more than a paper credit created on the basis of faith that the commodity pledged is in safe keeping and readily available. “Fractional Reserve Lending” is a technical name for counterfeiting. It means the commodity in reserve amounts to only a fraction of the paper notes that have been pledged against it. The Bank of England incorporated the secret of the London Goldsmiths into the first paper credit monopoly … a private corporation created by State charter… the Bank of England. Central Banks represent the ultimate form of Fascism. Whenever you merge a private corporation with a government … the corp will become the dominant partner … a good example is the relationship between the Federal Reserve corp and the U.S. Federal government. The corp owns the government and coerces it from behind a curtain. The power to create credit out of thin air and to issue it in the form of money is not a power that can be trusted to private bankers or government. They have the wrong motives. You can’t trust Bankers or Politicians. In a fascist state they are two peas in the same pod. So who do you trust to create an honest medium of exchange and manage the credit without cheating or stealing? And what is it that gives the credit money it’s value? I think the answer has been found in an alternative currency like the Berkshare. It is the answer to both questions. The Berkshare has value because the member merchants have voluntarily agreed to accept it at face value and will redeem it for whatever commodity, goods or services they hold in stock. When the trading community has FAITH and CONFIDENCE that the Berkshare can be redeemed for goods and services … that is what truly gives the credit paper it’s value … not one commodity like gold … but any desired commodity. Gold is a pretty trinket that has no inherent ability to satisfy the human necessities for food, shelter and clothing. It is all in the hands of the Rothschild Cartel, who would like to see it return as primary backer of currency. It’s still a dictatorship. A free association of local merchants … as in the case of the Berkshare … will have the right motives to issue and oversee their own local medium of exchange. Their only object is to keep business coming into their door without interruption and that is done by correctly managing the medium of exchange to where the quantity of currency fluctuates in tandem with the volume of goods and services in the marketplace. Under such a policy values would remain steady and growth would continue without the booms and busts created by manipulating the quantity of money. So my strategy is to promote honest alternative currency systems like the Berkshare and the ArBuck … the latter which I am designing for Arkansas, my home state. Multiply alternative currencies to such an extent that the money monopolies of the Central Banks are decentralized into inefficient dinosaurs that eventually fade into oblivion. I call that the bypass strategy. And what about a standard of value for the unit of money. I believe that time is the perfect measure to give value to a unit of money. The time standard trumps the commodity standard. Time is money. Gold and silver are unsurpassed as stores of value, but as a medium of exchange … they take a backseat to an honest system of credit, which enables goods and services to move at their highest velocity.

  14. apollonian permalink

    Socialism: Mere Moralistic Pretext For Dictatorship, Satanism; Freedom Requires Commodity Money, Period

    Socialism is CERTAINLY NOT the answer to anything as it’s (a) dictatorship–which is what moralists always want in order to impose their morality. (b) And as we now see, socialism is first step to absolute SATANISM, as we see presently, the gov. now actually working to exterminate the people by means, for example of UN policy, “AGENDA-21” whiich advocates “depopulation” (genocide).

    And if u think I’m joking about AGENDA-21–just ck the mass of material which demonstrates, at, where it’s shown fluoride in water supplies is poison (a); (b) vaccines are toxic, inducing disease and cancer, which rates have sky-rocketted; (c) GMOs, being pushed by the corporations are deadly, (d) “chem-trails” are not only poison, but they poison the ground-soil, preventing crops fm growing. Then (e) there’s the debilitating microwaves of cell-phones and (f) nuclear radiation poisoning.

    Socialism is simply pretext and first-step to (1) dictatorship, and (2) SATANIC genocide–the hook is morality and moralism which sets u up.

    Note then commodity money (i.e. gold & silver), the ONLY proper money, doesn’t need dictatorship or socialism to enforce it–and ANY other alternative money system is NECESSARILY first step to dictatorship, including socialism, the choice of “moral” people, ho ho oho ho–SUCKERS.

    And finally, note this: any non-commodity money (gold & silver) is ALWAYS and necessarily first step to absolute, total SATANISM. The only advocates of non-commodity money are satanists, moralists (Pharisaics), and suckers.

  15. Reblogged this on seeds for natural justice and commented:
    thought provoking videos inside, about usury, and a TED talk on money!

  16. Whats interesting is that Anthony Migchels refuses to make it known that Karl Marx was a jew, also he neglects to mention that Nationalsozialismus protected private property, I have 2 Gottfried Feder books talking about the protection of private property, what have you to say to that Anthony?

    Gottfried Feder – Privateigentum you want to debate anything factual Anthony or just protect the jews?

    • apollonian permalink

      “Mike”: I suspect Anthony just wants to avoid controversy–in order to help promote his (legalized) COUNTERFEITING scheme which he thinks will work if it’s only gov.-sponsored and doesn’t charge interest, ho ho ho oho.

      U bring up good pt. though, indubitably. But I don’t think socialism of any sort ultimately promotes prop. rights in general. Unc’ Adolf and nazis were merely responding in genuine defensive, martial-law manner against the Jew-led and -funded bolshevikis who were mass-murdering people in Russia and Ukraine, having already done so in Armenia (see, and

      • Yes, I’m well known for my fear of controversy……….

        Here’s yet another jew basher completely confused by the power of their ideas.

        For your info apollonian, Hitler was not too impressed with ‘sound’ money. You know why? Because the Jews have owned all the ‘sound’ money for as long as recorded history. Brother Nathanael was waking up to that but he recanted because of all the Paulites who merrily projected their all too jolly hopes of ‘Freedom’ on the good doctor, who was invented by the Jews to sway the brutish Goyim mind, which they know is not interested in facts, but in great plans and even greater words, with new words for their age old con.

        • apollonian permalink

          “For . . . [my] . . . info”?–Anthony, why is it u pretend u’re always the one who knows all things, while no one else knows anything?–ho ho hoo ho. After thousands of years, nature demonstrates the only money consistent w. freedom–commodity money, gold & silver being best, BUT this is too simple for Anthony who knows all things and has come-down to earth to inform the ignorant goyim.

          Regarding Jews: Anthony, have u ever hrd of the Talmud?–do u know what it preaches? See or for definitive Talmudic expo. The Zohar is yet another in-famous Jew production, following upon Talmud.

          And Jews have been hated by all peoples of all lands, all throughout history–have u seen or hrd about the mass-murder being done to Palestinians on practical daily basis in land which Jews stole?

          So Anthony: there u have it–(a) the Talmud which preaches murder and lies against gentiles, and (b) history, which proves and demonstrates.

          Note commodity money–the only “sound” money–doesn’t necessarily have to be gold/silver, though they’re best. And there’s way to dealing w. Jews–like u deal w. any criminals, regardless they’re rich–they don’t own everything, as criminals are necessarily a minority.

          • 🙁 You’re making a fool of yourself apollonian: you have every chance of the world to figure out who you are dealing with here and now you are preaching Talmud to me?

            While I just explained to you your Hitler friend hated Gold?

            You say I’m pretending I know all things while you talk to me like I’m a 4th grader?

            Let’s quit this embarrassment and do me at least the favor of reading some of the stuff on my blog before commenting on what is under discussion here?

          • apollonian permalink

            Anthony: I read ur above entry and responded to it–everyone hates gold/commodity -based money who wants to spend freely on public account. Hitler wanted to do this spending, esp. for military/defense purposes. I only defend Hitler as fellow anti-semite; I made no comments upon his economic ideas which seemed pretty conventional–rather Keynesian, I’d say.

            Gold/silver/commodity -based money is honest money which can’t be COUNTERFEITED–that’s honest money–nothing else works in a free society.

            So I’d say it’s up to u to prove how/why commodity money is inadequate–u haven’t done that, aside fm mere asserting that u know of some improvement over commodity money. U don’t seem to be able to say anything without psycho-babble and using un-defined terms.

          • Facio Libre permalink

            Anthony – The fact the that your position on money (for the most part) is being pushed on TEDx Talk is quite problematic for me.. These are RED FLAGS for all to see right there.. If these ideas were really challenging the Money Powers certainly they would not be presented to the public on television.. NOT IN A MILLION YEARS!! I mean.. I like your ideas on usury-free credit and debt free money (makes much sense in my mind) but I’m starting to get a feeling that there is a catch here.. we just need to figure out what it is.. If I had to make a guess.. it would have to do with the use of DIGITAL (virtual) MONEY.. IS THAT THE CATCH?? I bet it is.. If you want to know why digital money is bad Anthony.. just look the delete button on your keyboard..

          • I didn’t realize ‘my’ views were being pushed on TEDx?

            I did see some stuff concerning complementary currencies some time back, but I never did a TEDx talk, don’t expect to be invited and don’t really think a comprehensive monetary analysis has been offered there.

          • Facio Libre permalink

            Whatever the new money system we adapt it must be in tangible form.. i.e., NOT DIGITAL (VIRTUAL MONEY).. It has to be something that you can hold in your hands..

          • DITTO!
            The Physical may be what you want and believe is necessary but you ain’t runnin’ things.

            The Elites already have their Plan pretty well solidified and it will probably be some form
            of digital fabrication in the form of SDRs, uber bonds, etc.

    • archivesDave permalink

      Marx, Lenin, Stalin, and Churchill: All Freemasons

    • pfffffffffffffffffff Mike………….please dude, everybody knows Karl Marx was a Jew. That may be very revolutionary and highly interesting to pseudo machos like yourself, but attacking Jews never solved their usury. Dissecting their nonsense does, that’s why we analyze economics here. Capice?

      • Are you saying that removing jews entirely from ones government, which has been done only a handful of times, doesn’t produce the peoples prosperity? thats the opposite from truth… Id like you to demonstrate the idiocy of this type of thought process, carry on by all means…

      • how many governments today producing the peoples destruction are heavily influenced by jews? how many destructive moral institutions within nations are dominated by jews? Hollywood and the gay movement are prime examples… do you own a rabbi box? television? you watch it at all, what do you see on it? wake man, youre not fooling anyone, by the way, are you a productive laborer? I recently wrote a few articles you would abhor

        make no mistake, I am not a socialist or any other ridiculous term you choose to apply, I am a productive laborer, are you? My only interest here is telling the truth about history, something you seem unable to do, which is why you refuse to debate Rodney Martin… I oppose white nationalism and national socialism, I oppose everything, I stand only for the working class and for Europa! you should try it, its liberating… There are many like me who oppose parasites in all forms, the middle men of society sucking the wealth of the working class must be arrested and put into forced labor camps, that’s it, I guess Im just a radical pan European Nationalist, its time for people to drop all the divisive groups and just get real, we are the true masters of state, the productive laborers and we are the boss because we pay the bills, we will make the decisions from now on, correcting historical liars is just a hobby of mine, freeing the productive members of society from the evil tyranny of global capital elitism is my only goal…

    • Marx was also a Satanist like your idol Adolf Hitler who was a member the Thule society and ruthlessly persecuted the Christian church. But I suppose that we can over look that since technically he wasn’t a jew.

      • moron everyone knows that hitler was a Christian, paid his church dues all the way up to his death in april of 1945 and did no such thing as persecuting the church, also he was not a member of the thule society, but since you know so much about national socialism I would like for you to tell me the 2 founding principles which can be found anywhere in English, lets see if you know anything about anything…

        • Every politician is nominally a Christian. How many announce their membership in secret occult societies to the dupes that adore them so mindlessly?

          Hitler forced the church to make himself as the head of worship in place of Jesus Christ. Anyone preaching the gospels contradicting his war policies were picked up and imprisoned.

          National socialism’s founding principle is clearly stated in the Enabling Act of 1933, wherein Hitler became a dictator and a ruthless police state came into being. Anything else is rubbish talk.

          • Its clearly stated in das program der nsDAP what the founding principles are and you don’t even know, the answer is because you don’t know anything about national socialism, so why are you pretending you do? – CHALLENGE provide some evidence that your assertion is true – nobody alive at the time remembers anything like your complete and outright lie, so why make yourself look like such a moron? Hitlers armies had Lutheran and Catholic priests in the field with the soldiers co operating together with all the other Christian denominations A FIRST IN HISTORY, you don’t know anything about Germany so just stop making yourself look stupid

          • What good are all your national socialist bromides is a police state wherein the citizens are stripped of all there rights as a human being? Maybe if you didn’t listen to so much heavy metal music, that the jews created to make people stupid and morally degenerate, you could fathom that.
            I’m certain that Hilter did have many Catholics and Lutherans in his armies. If they refused or protested they would be imprisoned, tortured and perhaps shot like Dietrich Boehoeffer.

          • a ruthless police state that armed every german citizen, even the half jew Heinz Werichardt in his book UNDER 2 FLAGS recalls how jews were allowed to be armed as well, he came to America and was dis armed… shows how stupid you are – THATS HOW YOU USE SOURCES moron

          • The Weimar government had gun control and registration laws in place. Hitler merely made changes in that law to include prohibition of guns to jews and non citizens. Saying that every German had guns is ridiculous. With the existing gun laws the Nazis only gave guns to those that had a demonstated need for having them — which wouldn’t include political and religious dissident citizenry.

          • that’s absolutely incorrect, again, half jew Heinz weichardt who lived under national socialism and never stopped praising it had a ton of guns, he was selling lugers once for a friend and when the gestapo investigated that he had been selling stolen army lugers they came to his house, he informed them that he didn’t know they were stolen. They searched his house and looked at all his guns, they neatly folded his clothes and put them back after searching and didn’t take any of his guns – they were searching for the army lugers which he didn’t have – they did not confiscate his guns. They did not mistreat him. He moved to America and when he got to America the americans confiscated his guns UNDER 2 FLAGS – HEINZ WEICHARDT

            Where did you learn history from? jewish Hollywood? I don’t understand why you think any German would believe a word of your unsourced bullshit, I have told Anthony I would stop being belligerent on his website, he has been pretty magnanimous considering my attitude and insults to him, but you are a fucking moron idiot… and a cpward who cant even put his name behind what he says, don’t talk to me like you know anything about Germany, are you german? No so why would we listen to you about our history…

          • And your just another raging opinionated fanatic with like minded sources. Your a crackpot even by revistionist history standards.

          • REN permalink

            Douglas’ aim was to reform the monetary system, such that it became an order system. The consumer would be able to “order” what his labor produced. Labor has been made efficient through humans working together by increment of association; or in other words, one plus one is more than two. Further efficiency is now had by division of labor – where we become expert and hence efficient. The social credit of past and present inventors/entrepreneurs have harnessed solar energy (fuel + machines) and given us a gift of great leaps in productivity. This ‘social credit’ means that all humans, upon birth, inherit a legacy from our human fore-bearers, as well as God’s gifts of the earth. We produce at many thousands of times the level of our fore-fathers, yet we must run on a treadmill? Our legacy gifts should mean that we have plenty amidst plenty.

            Every wonder how we have put the industrial revolution into hyper drive, yet we are going into more debt – there is poverty amidst plenty. The culprit is the money system, which is currently organized NOT as an order system. As a demand ticket, our current money system – as an inherent function of its design – cannot allow labor to order what it has produced. Our money system is defective because it is not in alignment with labor’s produce. Our money system denies labor his full value money ticket and instead distributes the purchasing power toward financial oligarchs – usually the creators of bank money.

            Because our money system is defective, we have muddled sophist thinkers (e.g. Marx acolytes and others) who want to introduce monopoly political statism – a political legal pyramid system. These administrative pyramids are led ostensibly by an angel, who can correct the “production” problems induced by our invisible financial pyramid. These statist monopoly systems always have a secret police, or some sort of force agency to compel the sheeple into compliance. As Lord Acton says, “absolute power corrupts absolutely.” No human is an angel, and if he is, he will soon be corrupted. Any pyramid system, whether invisible money power, or monopoly statism, will condemn mankind to slavery. To add insult to injury, hidden money powers will FUND political statism. By bringing state power and money power into alignment, the two overlapping pyramids will insure parasite rents upon “society” via the law. With the advent of drones and electronic snooping, resisting statism (and parasitical financial oligarchy) takes on more urgency.

            Man’s condition is little changed from pre WW2, as the financial parasite was not rooted out.

            Below, extracts from a speech by Major C.H. Douglas at Calgary, Alberta, Canada, April, 1934:

            -In Great Britain the phrase under which this change is taking place is called Rationalization or Planning; in Italy as the Fascisti or Corporate State; in Russia it is the Dictatorship of the Proletariat … and is being aimed at in Germany by the Nazis … Whether it be by accident or design, the world is steadily moving over from a financial tyranny which has both the elements of breakdown and has also been found out to another tyranny, a tyranny of administration … the setting up of an entire State which can say, “You shall do so and so”. “You shall have such and such rations”. “You shall live in such and such a house, you shall work such and such hours”. “You shall be taught such and such things”. “And any deviation from those laws which we lay down for you will be penalized by either starvation or by all the rigors of the law”.-

          • Mike, do yourself a big favor and look up the psychological definition of ‘projection’!

          • apollonian permalink

            “PM”: what u totally leave out is that unc’ Adolf did what he did in DEFENSE against Jew-bolshies who’d murdered millions in Russia, Ukraine, Armenia, and other places too–even Germany itself. And German people rallied behind and around dear unc’ Adolf.

            Unfortunately Hitler seems to have been addicted to speed-injections given to him by Dr. Morel, and he inexplicably declared war against USA which he didn’t have to do, this after he failed to take Moscow in late summer, early fall of 1941. This isn’t rubbish.

          • PM that is a load of crap, germans were never stripped of any rights as human beings and you use big flashy words like that because you have no evidence to back you up, what are you a Hollywood film producer or something? you should watch this documentary on the concentration camps which is real footage of the conditions


            in contrast real footage of jews in russia like lazar kaganovich who were the Bolsheviks killing off 60 million – how human is this and where is the outrage against the descendants of these Bolsheviks who run all your governments in the EU and USA


            don’t believe it? even aleksandr Solzhenitsyn nobel prize winner says so in – 200 years together the jews in the soviet union, once again sources from the opposite side that support Germany’s actions

            PM you would look a lot less like a pathetic propagandist if you would use sources, nothing you say is based on documented evidence while everything I say IS! which is probably why
            Anthony posts my comments, now in respect to him I must leave off, so lets just drop it, unless you have something based in reality to say but I doubt it


            Im not sure if that speed thing is even true… I don’t think it is, as far as declaring war on America you should listen to the speech that accompanied that declaration, we have the lend lease act and all kinds of other crap that was really an act of war so I mean come on. Arming a country that is at war with another country but claiming to be neutral, America did this like they always do this kind of deceptive crap. America had been attacking germany openly since 1939 and before – William C bullit American ambassador to Poland encouraged the poles to murder and mutilate German civilians under their control, these would be the preussen schlesiens… this is the lebensraum of mein kampf for all those that don’t know it, preussen was the founding state that unified the german states unto a single state, guys like Otto von Bismarck and even Paul von Hindenburg who by the way watched the Poles build Europe’s frist concentration camps to house Germans in his birthplace after the diktat of versaille was signed… can you imagine it? Hitler simply personified the outcry of a whole nation…

            If you wouldn’t mind, you can contact me very easily, lets leave off bombarding Anthony’s site with all these comments, he has actually been quite magnanimous to me considering the attitude I have, I don’t need to resort to the language I use to prove my point, I do anyway because I am a proud European radical Nationalist, no compromise should be made with anyone trying to brainwash us, getting pissed off is very important, so few people seem able to do this today, anyway I must respect Anthony as he has not tried to censor anything I have posted on his website, that’s actually very honorable, so yeah

          • You can’t read the Enabling Act for yourself?

          • That argument is like taking sides in a fight between a vampire and a werewolf. I reject debt slavery to Talmudic jews as much as I do to a statist dictatorship of national socialism.

          • apollonian permalink

            PM: it’s huge mistake to equate Unc’ Adolf, nazis, and Germans w. the conspiratorial Jews and bolshies–esp. when u consider the Germans and Unc’ Adolf did what they did in DEFENSE, the Jews-bolshies proceeding ruthlessly upon a socialist program which had been in effect for many yrs and even decades.

            And this (above), esp., in view of what Germans had witnessed w. their own eyes, the mass-murders of Russians, Ukrainians, Armenians by Jew-bolshies.

            Mike: I agree w. all ur observations about (FDR) working for war, against the Germans, criminally colluding w. British, BUT u gotta realize it was BIG, HUGE mistake for Hitler to have so gratuitously gotten USA into the war–USA w. such tremendous Industrial potential and capacity.

            People of USA DID NOT NOT NOT NOT want war w. Germans, even after Pearl Harbor, and probably would have stayed out without Hitler’s gratuitous declaration of war. W. USA out of the effort against Germany, Hitler wouldn’t have to have worried about the Western front. For example, there would have been no Operation Torch in Nov 1942, allies moving fm West North Africa, then to Sicily and Italy.

            For note in summer of 1943 during operation Citadel, Hitler called-off the prospective and successful offensive which he was surely winning against Russkies–in order to transfer forces to Italy.

          • you think the nsDAP was founded in 1933? what a moron, it was founded in the early 1920’s and actually was only renamed in the 20’s it was founded in 1919 – shows what you know – absolutely nothing

          • No, mikey I don’t actually believe that. Your brain is so addled with jewish heavy metal that you can’t see my point. The Enabling Act of 1933 rendered in practice all of your nsDAP bromides null and void. Without civil liberties what good is any of it?

          • the enabling act stripped Bolshevik communist’s of liberties, so what, If Campbell and I have anything to do with it we will do worse here in America

          • That is simply a lie and I invite everyone to investigate that for themselves.

  17. Did karl marx or mordechai levi or levine mordechai or whatever the hell is name is even write the communist manifesto or did he simply publish a book of judeo Talmudic thought? its all straight from the Talmud, you should put that in your cover up Anthony… you going to debate Rodney martin or what?

  18. Anthony; did you really mean to contrast “Capitalism” with “Communism”?

    If you truly mean to contrast “capitalists” with “socialists” you’re adding confusion by mentioning “Karl Marx” and the “Bolshevist revolution” – both are quite separate from socialism.

    Communists are internationalists (NWO) while socialists tend to be nationalists. Socialism can and frequently co-exists within capitalism through financial programs and philosophically as both may recognize the concept of the “national wealth” (common wealth) and the justice in sharing that benefit.

    “Socialism’ is sometimes used interchangeably with ‘communism’ but the two philosophies have some stark differences. Most notably, while communism is a political system, socialism is primarily an economic system that can exist in various forms under a wide range of political systems. —

    You mentioned that “Socialism then goes on to claim private property is the problem. It says this will be solved by nationalizing it.” This is not an accurate depiction of “socialism” but it is an accurate portrayal of communism.

    Under communism; private property is abolished. Under socialism private property continues to exist and is usually encouraged through individual ownership of land, houses, assets, etc. For example, some socialists suggest that individuals should be able to buy homes with 0% loans backed by the state. Communists would simply eliminate all private property.

    I think you should clarify what you mean in order to have a worthwhile discussion.

    • Anthony wasn’t suggesting that property belonging to individual citizens be abolished at all. What he meant is that institutions devoted to the public good — like banks, utilities, military, police, fire, prisons, medicine — should be nationalized. These institution should be devoted to serving the public and not the private profit seeking motives of a CEO and board of shareholders.

      • REN permalink

        The market is of three types. Elastic, Inelastic, and Mixed. Using this methodology it becomes clear (at least to me) about how to divide government responsibilities. Elastic markets will tend to regulate themselves through the price mechanism. If a product is not available, a competing product usually is. Elastic markets work well as competition tends to keep parasitic rents low. Government should referee elastic markets, to prevent collusion and illegal behavior, but that is all.

        Inelastic markets are fixed, and competition mechanism cannot easily work. Do we want competing ports? No, the landmasses are fixed, and it is an impossibility to have locally competing ports. How about competing Air Forces? No, we would get inefficiency through duplication of effort. Competing sewer systems, roads, electrical power lines? No, that duplication adds cost and inefficiency. Government, as our agent, should be involved or be an owner whenever there is in-elasticity.

        Have you ever heard an economist speak like this? They don’t because they are usually paid for shills, and hence are not free to speak the truth. We’ve been fed myths and propaganda about the nature of markets, which have hypnotized man into thinking improperly. The money system is closely related to markets via the pricing mechanism. Guess where this propaganda money typically comes from – yep, the usury system via private credit making banks.

        We become free when we have efficient systems, and said systems are organized such that our economic overhead vectors back to us. Government is often demeaned by the money powers, as Gov is a force than can resist their financial tyranny. Private money powers also need government to bail them out peridically due to inherent systemic instability. Jewish money powers being consistently kicked out of countries, or even the Templars being kicked out of France by Philip are an example of government overcoming money power. Of course, government can also be co-opted as an agent of tyranny, as is happening today. The people’s money power could resist and overcome private money powers, and also keep the state organized along proper bounds, which is why I am a social creditor.

        Mixed markets are both elastic and inelastic. The medical market is a good example of a mixed market Rent seeking predators tend to hide and pretend these definitions don’t exist, thus they will re-define their market to justify their rent taking. The rent seekers use some of their rents e.g. pharmaceutical industry, to then parasitize government via lobbying activities and direct money gifts.

        • apollonian permalink

          deleted, see comment policy

          • REN permalink

            Calling something a name, and then knocking it down, is making a straw-man argument. Straw-mans are psycho-babble, or there is a hidden agenda. I’m usually teaching when I write. You can accept it or not, but truth has a way of ringing in your head and not going away.

            There are three big lies given to humanity: 1) Specie is money 2) Paper is redeemable in specie 3) Debt is money.

            Actually money is an accounting identity, and its true nature is law. It stands in as a good at the moment of transaction, and when it is not standing in as a good, it is latent demand. Money is also sterile, and cannot reproduce itself any more than can grains of sand. Money is no more commodity than are numbers in mathematics. Money is abstract, and it exists as an invention of man’s creative nature.

            Most of the ancient world was held in slavery due to specie. Aramaic speaking people would enter the marketplace, usually on a park bench, and give out loans. They would impress with their stylus onto a clay ledger, and then give out a silver loan. The abstract numbers on the clay ledger would grow with usury, something like an excel spreadsheet growing unnaturally with an exponential function. Remember, money is sterile, it cannot reproduce itself. But, the silver “loan” implies that silver would be in the money supply in future, this in order to pay back the loan. Of course, the silver mines were owned by the money powers, and the debtor would soon find no silver available to pay the abstract ledger. The lack of silver money in the supply to pay the abstraction is a form of fraud, and it continues to this day. It is non trivial, because if you cannot pay your debts then soon you are a slave, or your family.

            The East West mechanism, the dichotomoy between gold/silver ratios in the East and West, were the driving force for much of history, and ripped many people into slavery and stole their labor output.

            Whole populations in the America’s were wiped out in the mines, in the fevered desire for shiny metal. All of this is tragic absurdity, because the nature of money is not metal.
            When South Africa was colonized, the natives were forced into the mines with a head tax. The Rand came into being with “Law” and it had nothing to do with gold. Well, it had to do with getting workers to mine the yellow metal. Pay the tax, or go to jail.

            Paper riding on top of specie is also fraud, propagated as truth by money masters. Saying something is redeemable in metal, then not having enough metal is a lie. When Greenbacks were issued, Senator Spaulding said it the current emergency situation meant that we had to stop lying to each other about re-deemablility in specie. By the way, Greenbacks were never issued in more volume than the law permitted. Do bankers, even specie limited bankers, control there issuance of loaned into existence money? NO! Of course, upon the Greenback resumption act, the bankers wanted debt contracts paid back in specie instead of greenbacks. They changed the law to suit their rent taking. Yes, let’s keep the money power hidden and private, it works so well this way, and has for centuries!

            Debt is money is another lie. Most people don’t give a damn about where the money came from; they just want it to be lawful so they can trade their output.

            The merchant class has been spreading lies since Babylonian times, this in order to parasitize man. The parasite lives in the reproductive organs and the brain, and uses his power to take rents. Banker’s getting between creditors and debtors, in order to loan money into existence, is the location of the reproduction center where the parasite lives. Gold and Silver is far removed from the actuality of money, and is a distraction. In this position, between Creditor and Debtor, the parasite will use his various mechanisms, including specie/usury/redeemability lies, and debt instruments, to host his population.

          • apollonian permalink

            deleted, see comment policy

          • REN permalink


            I already answered you. Money has its basis in law. Markets are rigged and must be law based. Private money power skirts the law or adjusts it to take rents.

            Economists add unlike numbers and often advocate for positions at variance with reality. For example, gold loving sophists such as the Austrians are completely out to lunch in a fantasy world. They will advocate as if the market is magic and self regulating, and that money should come into being as being dug from the ground, etc. and other nonsense.

            Let me use a simple example of market rigging, even your brutish mind should comprehend. We have a non money gift economy…let’s say it is an island. I use my big family of tough brothers and corner the best fishing grounds. You try to come onto my fishing grounds and you will get killed.

            In order to trade my fish and get the best deal, I make others pay a high price. Maybe I will take your daughter in trade for one of my fish because you are starving. I can get fish easily and trade them for a high price.

            Of course in this scenario, the “tribe” will elect a king or enforce of the law, and then bash in my head.

            The same goes in a money economy. You take rents, and your head should be bashed in by the law. Some sort of government is necessary otherwise civilization cannot exist.

            To allow private money power to steal from society, to make money scarce, is the same effect as making my fish scarce.

          • apollonian permalink

            deleted, see comment policy.

    • Ok Larry, I’ll be the first to admit there is a great confusion here. Socialism is used by all sorts of fuzzy ‘thinkers’, but its definition is ‘socialized ownership of the means of production’ and this is the quintessential nature of both Socialism and Communism.

      Of course I’m not going to claim my definition is ‘best’, but to my mind Socialism is the same as Communism and Marx thought so too. I realize Socialism rings a little more humane than Communism, but I’d say both these words have been corrupted to the utmost and I don’t see any purpose in redeeming them.

      • Anthony wrote: “Socialism is used by all sorts of fuzzy ‘thinkers’, but its definition is ‘socialized ownership of the means of production’ and this is the quintessential nature of both Socialism and Communism.”

        What about banking? State (public) or privately owned? Which is best?

        Assuming that privately owned commercial banking may profitably issue 0% loans; would you prefer private or state owned banking?

        • apollonian permalink

          deleted, see comment policy

        • I don’t really care. I think it’s basically a non-issue: the public vs. private dialectic.

          Privately owned does not perse mean on a for-profit basis. There can be chartered foundations, for instance. Perhaps organizations like these are the way forward, semi-private, semi-public, chartered in the spirit of money credit being part of the commons.

          • Privately owned commercial banks can and do make profitable loans without charging interest as may be seen in the mortgage market. Banks can profit by selling services and charging transaction fees.

            It would be socialism/communism if the state were to hold a monopoly over banking and money creation. This should be avoided and instead; the financial means of production should remain in the private sector.

            One of the greatest failures of the 21st century is that we still haven’t figured out how to loan money at 0%. But that may change as we are beginning to see 0% loans for highly qualified borrowers.

        • REN permalink


          There is a third option, where money is nationalized but banks remain private.

          Who owns the debt instrument? Let’s play that game:

          1) State banks create money and hence own the debt instrument. They can then direct their debtors. State Banks often have private fractional reserve banking corporations as part of their hybrid system mix. State Bank systems have a dangerous mix of private bank money power, and also could tip over into fascism with top down pyramidal control. State banks have the power to jubilee and forgive debts, thus releasing their debtors from bondage.

          2) Private hypothecation banks (like we have now). The Debt instrument is owned by the private banker, and hence this private cadre of un-elected men can control their debtors. The usury wealth, and harvesting schemes, are used to control government via bribes.

          3) Private Banks but Nationalized money. The saver, becomes the Creditor and hence holds the debt instrument. The saver is not a banker, but instead one of the people. The private banker earns a fee for bringing Creditors and Debtors together, and hence this scheme is also non usurious. The private banker keeps our money as an accountant and distributes it according to the law, our desires, and his charter. The money supply is created by a monetary authority, from nothing who issues it into the supply – preferably into households as direct spend. No debt instruments are used for creation, but the money is issued as seigniorage according to the volume needs of the economy. Money is available in the supply, as a tool or “social credit” that we can use to trade our output.

          4) Mutual Credit. The Creditor and Debtor together create the money unit. When Creditor loans out his good or service, he owns the debt instrument (even if it is by verbal agreement). Therefore mutual credit acts like #3, even though it is a private system. Mutual credit systems use time, or other schemes to create the “unit” but in reality it is just a unit to allow creditors and debtors to exchange their output. There is no sneaky banker getting between creditors and debtors and pretending he owns money power.

          • REN wrote: “There is a third option, where money is nationalized but banks remain private.”

            REN, I agree and think this may be the best alternative. Listed below is a link to aFlow Chart that I made showing such a system. Ultimately, all new money is created by congress as they create “liquid pools” of money that commercial banks may draw from interest free.

            And, there is a “debt free” pool that may be drawn from by state chartered banks. This money would be spent into the economy on infrastructure projects as the individual states deem it valuable. One state might rebuild their highways and bridges while another state might build a public transportation system.

            Click on the Flow Chart for a larger view

            One good thing about having the national government create all new money is that ultimately, they would be the senior creditor on all loans.

            For example, government could simply guarantee all qualified mortgages in support of 0% loans issued by banks. Upon defaults, the title would pass to the national government where it could be written off.

          • REN permalink


            That is excellent. Good job. I think of it this way: The pools of available money can be two types e.g. Sovereign credit and Sovereign money. When the credit loan is paid back, the sovereign “creditor” can choose to not re-loan i.e. his “pool” regains its former lost numbers. In this way, sovereign credit can be used to flex the supply for seasonal needs and to drain at loan payback rate, to control for inflation.

            The other “pool” will be inside of a loop that is used by everybody else. It also is sovereign money but it “floats.” It gained its floating attributes when it was spent into the supply and not recalled by taxation.

            In other words, a system, as I envision it, will have two types of money, floating and sovereign credit. Floating money can only be recalled with taxes, and credit is recalled upon loan payback (to the Sovereign pool).

            Lateral flows of floating money will be back and forth between Creditors and Debtors who are in the money supply. The private banker matches up saving creditors and debtors to help them exchange their floating sovereign money. This is what I mean by example number 3 above, with nationalized money. But, I believe you are right, we also need pools of sovereign credit.

            The Sovereign credit pool could also exist as a credit fund within an existing private bank, where private banker has to get authorization to loan under proper conditions (for example to farmers for seed, etc). This action is identical to loaning out a private saver’s funds.

            MV=PQ. The money type M comes under control, people don’t freak out and save too much, and the unit itself is not under excessive drain pressure to disappear (as in today’s hypothecation banking system). V still needs to have bounds and come under control, and prices also. Notice that V is less important if M is taken care of. Quantity of goods has a temporal dimension that you have helped with a sovereign credit pool – allowing the time shift. (Quantity is a lagging indicator after money makes demands on goods through the market.)

            At this point, it can also be pointed out that Mutual Credit fits in nicely. It can use the sovereign money as a reference point to value its unit. Mutual Credit can help drive the usury toward zero by being competition within its own local loop. Sovereign Credit, Floating money Savers, and Mutual Credit are all competing to become creditors. But note, they are each doing things within slightly different zones of influence.

          • REN…agreed, nationalized liquidity pools; “floating” (debt free money pool that does not self-destruct) and “sovereign credit” (lending pool), allow for greater economic control. The pools may be filled, drained or the “system supply” may be throttled to affect the MV=PQ variables.

            REN wrote “Lateral flows of floating money will be back and forth between Creditors and Debtors who are in the money supply. The private banker matches up saving creditors and debtors to help them exchange their floating sovereign money.”

            This is an interesting area for discussion as I probably don’t foresee as much lateral movement as you. I don’t see much need for people to borrow from one another if 0% loans are available (in the creation of new money). If people lend one another “existing” money; through private banks serving as intermediaries, surely the cost will be higher than simply having the banks provide new money.

            If it were deemed that the “sovereign credit” pool should be throttled so as to not allow as much new money; this could create a demand for the lateral flow that you described. How would private banks; acting as intermediaries, compensate the lenders who offer their savings to borrowers?

            I should probably note that in my opinion, 0% contracts should only be issued for loans that are fully collateralized. If a loan is not fully collateralized, then it is speculative and the borrower should anticipate higher costs.

            For example, if a business needs money for growth that exceeds its evaluated assets, then lenders should be rewarded for their risk and inconvenience. Is this the type of lending that you are referring to? How would you facilitate it – would a dividend be in order? Is a dividend payment a form of usury?

            Thanks for the great discussion!

          • REN permalink

            You’ve gone in another direction that I have to think about, particularly with regards to fully capitalized loans. Sovereign loans need jubilee powers, so I suppose that means also liquidating attached private assets under those conditions. There has to be credit in the system, maybe 40%.

            I think mankind needs a taxpayer funded monetary authority, which would also have an associated college – where political economy is studied, and rents (including usurious rents) can be identified and prosecuted, even on a case by case basis. The average person just cannot get a handle on this stuff, nor do they want to. Mostly people want an institution they can trust. Andrew Jackson was desperate for good advice after closing the second bank, but he couldn’t get consensus from his advisers. We will need to run experiments going forward, especially as we move toward full automation economy with zero point energy.

            With regards to money, I think in terms of the unit and forces upon said unit;one force may be attractive and the other is repulsive. The repulsive force would be demurrage on savings, albeit light as possible. Taxes are another push/repulsive force. The attractive forces would be something hovering in the positive interest rate range, a fraction of a percent maybe possible, which compels people to loan. In other words, the shift toward zero interest rate would be psychological, as people would see enough money in the supply, and they would desire to loan out their savings. The interest rates would have to adjust around zero as any complex system will never be in equilibrium. Push and pull move rates toward zero, along with full money supply in locations that matter. I would like people to loan out their savings as they can then become moral capitalists, who will adjust debtor payback as conditions warrant. The people will have skin in the game, and also be asset owners – many small businesses.

            MV=PQ is an unsolvable equation because all of the variables cross link with dependencies.. This means that any money system must have levers and knobs, such as injections, drains, and valves.

            Usury is taking unfair advantage. If the creditor is taking risk then it is ok to my mind for them to get some returns. Other rules, like limiting usury to a certain amount of the loan, and not allowing rolling over, etc. can be codified. But, when hypothecation bankers, as in today, get between creditor and debtor, we can’t easily discern usurious contracts. The first act would be to dislodge the parasite from his hypothecation location.

    • David permalink

      Socialism is a term now so broadly used that it becomes ambiguous without further definition. In Australia, most of the organised ‘socialist’ groups focus on minority grievance issues and either ignore or obfuscate on the issues undermining workers quality of life. A small number of us, who may be regarded as paleo-socialists, look to Owen, Morris and Winstanley for inspiration – rather than to Marx, Lenin and co. For us, the means of production – including banking – should be owned by the people, meaning not the State as representative of the proletariat, but the actual people who work for or are users of the enterprise.
      In the 19th century this tradition was alive and well in Oz but is sadly now the preserve of a very small number of us.
      Also in contrast to most of what passes for an organised Left here,we recognise the importance of the money question and usury to achieving real Australian socialism. This site and the contribution of Mr Migchels are an important contribution to these topics.


  19. Kevin Moore permalink

    That wealth can produce wealth is the assumption of Shylock.
    Shylock—”When Jacob grazed his Uncle Laban’s sheep—
    This Jacob from our holy Abraham was
    The third possessor; ay, he was the third.”
    Antonio—”And what of him? Did he take interest?”
    Shylock—”No, not take interest; not as you would say,
    Directly interest. Mark what Jacob did.” * * *
    Antonio—”This was a venture, sir, that Jacob served for;
    A thing not in his power to bring to pass—
    But swayed and fashioned by the hand of Heaven.
    Was this inserted to make interest good?
    Or is your gold and silver, ewes and rams?”
    Shylock—”I can not tell; I make them breed as fast.”
    —Merchant of Venice.
    The Project Gutenberg Ebook of Usury, by Calvin Elliott.

  20. apollonian permalink

    PM: again, u lack context and proportion–the Germans were on urgent defense, and w. the Western powers supporting Hitler w. massive funds (See Antony C. Sutton’s “Wall Street…” works), it wasn’t surprising nazis would come to power.

    And unc’ Adolf did lots of good: (a) the German volk supported Hitler who put the people back to work, producing. (b) And perhaps most of all, Hitler rid the society of the Jewwy filth. Would that we might have some hero to doing that for us here in Jew-S-A.

    And note most of all, it wasn’t only, or even primarily bolshevism Hitler was fighting–it was most of all the money and banking power–which saw to England’s making an offensive alliance against Germany, encouraging the Poles to totally illegitimately taking Danzig, a German city, which Hitler vowed to defend.

    • FDR put people back to work too and he did so without abolishing the constitution and declaring himself a dictator for life. That’ s my context.

      Hitler came to power via a false flag, and initiated his “defensive” preemtive attack on Poland with a false flag event as well — the staged attacked on the Gleiwitz radio station by Nazis disguised a poles. Legitmate leaders don’t use flag flags to come to power. Legitmate wars are not initiated by them either. I’m not convinced.

      • apollonian permalink

        Ho ho–PM: don’t u realize FDR issued an executive order requiring people to turn in their gold?–is this purest dictatorship or what? And then he devalued the gold–paying the people 20/oz when he took the gold, but then later made it 35/oz. Ho ho ho

        It’s unclear whether the Reichstag fire was started by nazis, but regardless, no one was killed, and remember: German people and nazis considered they were at WAR w. bolshies and Jews.

        Ck the Jew Talmud, PM–it’s a war plan against all gentiles, LITERALLY–see or for best Talmudic expo. For Jews it’s required they murder and enslave gentiles–and to lie to them as they do so.

        U ought to ck David Hoggan’s “The Forced War”–the Poles started the war against Germany making military moves against Danzig; further, the Poles initiated a literal GENOCIDE against the Germans who were living in Poland at the time, killing TENS OF THOUSANDS–u really ought to ck into this.

        It was the Western allies to pushed for and started WWII–there’s no doubt–as it was Britain and France who declared war on Germany, and Britain who refused to make peace on generous terms after Germany had defeated France in 1940.

        • Yes, i’m familiar with HRJ 192. FDR issued it in order to pay the private foreign bankers the interest on their loans of gold backed money. HRJ 192 makes the demand for payment in gold or any other form of currency illegal, since the means of payment, gold, have been taken away by the private banks. It further states that Due to the receivership of the U.S. , CONGRESS is legally responsible for all debts. There are legal remedies for everyone to take advantage of this to this day. The problem, however, resides in the fact they are not publicized and hidden due to he adversarial nature between govt agencies and the public. A good understanding of the Universal Commerce Code is also needed.

          This train wreck of national receivership to the foreign banks was irrevocably initiated on Wilson’s watch with the passage of the Federal Reserve act of 1913. FDR didn’t cause the problem and it debatable whether he could have don’t anything to stop it — short of nationalizing the FED and paying off the debt with interest free fiat, of course.

          If Poland was really doing all of these things , and constantly rebuffing Hitler’s diplomatic peace overtures, then why the need for the false flag event at Gleiwitz? It makes no sense.

          • apollonian permalink

            deleted, see comment policy

  21. Kevin Moore permalink

    Scott Cundill, from NewERA interviews Michael Tellinger about his new book that blows the lid on the South African and global banking system. Download the interview with Michael Tellinger here:

    [Right click on Episode 15 and choose “save target as.”]

    New ERA’s website can be found here.

    • I don’t believe abolishing money and replacing it with low cost energy production can work. However, if they are committed breaking away from the bankers (and pissing them off to boot) nonetheless, then they need to learn about Zero Point Energy, a method of producing free energy from water.

  22. Talk about being stuck in a Jewish paradigm.

    “One could not understand this war if one did not always keep in mind the fact that International Jewry stands behind all the unnatural forces that our united enemies use to attempt to deceive the world and keep humanity in the dark. It is, so to speak, the mortar that holds the enemy coalition firmly together, despite its differences of class, ideology, and interests. Capitalism and Bolshevism have the same Jewish roots, two branches of the same tree that in the end bear the same fruit. International Jewry uses both in its own way to suppress the nations and keep them in its service. How deep its influence on public opinion is in all the enemy countries and many neutral nations is plain to see that it may never be mentioned in newspapers, speeches, and radio broadcasts. There is a law in the Soviet Union that punishes anti-Semitism — or in plain English, public education about the Jewish Question — by death. The expert in these matters is in no way surprised that a leading spokesman for the Kremlin said over the New Year that the Soviet Union would not rest until this law was valid throughout the world. In other words, the enemy clearly says that its goal in this war is to put the total domination of Jewry over the nations of the earth under legal protection, and to threaten even a discussion of this shameful attempt with the death penalty.” – Joseph Goebbels, The Creators of the World’s

    More on Karl Mark real name Moses Mordecai Levy and his ilk

  23. Do you know who E. Michael Jones is Anthony? He says some pretty good stuff. I don’t agree with his religious beliefs, but he still says some good stuff. When it comes to religion all i believe is creation is real, but who is responsible for creation, i don’t know.

    • Yes, of course I know EMJ, and indeed, he’s right on the money. He’s also a bit of a Catholic apologist, which is not my cup of tea.

      I think the Catholic Church and the Jews are controlled by the same people/spirits, and that they are in a dialectic with each other.

      Having said that: the Bible is still the most important book there is. THere are many problems with it, and it’s heavily redacted, but the truth can still be gleaned from it.

      • Dale permalink

        The Catholic church has some sound and very good social teachings in my opinion that I admire. Of course the Catholic social teachings have been subverted now.

        We’re now seeing that the church was right to prohibit usury.

        I think the church was right to not engage in homosexual marriage too. Homosexuality is inferior to heterosexuality and is not sacred or healthy. Homosexuals can’t produce offspring, that alone makes a homosexual relationship inferior. I don’t even need the bible to tell me about homosexuality, i figured it out myself by observing the creators creation.

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